The Breitling Watch Source Forums

And a lumed sweep tip too.

Perhaps needed to be rebranded AOPA after production for whichever reason...?

Curious to loupe one, I'd bet you could make out a black "coverup" on top of the old twin plane logo.

Lower collectable value for me.. Not because of originality concerns as much as aesthetic preference.


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In my opinion we should give much more credit to these "versions" than we do, as with the "many" of them we have seen, and on what "IMO", without any doubt what so ever - is original dials, then there's no doubt in my mind that they left Breitling production like that.

Come in mind that this Forum have more knowledge that anybody else when it comes to Vintage Breitling, and we are more or less setting the standard for these watches.

If it had been a Rolex watch, then the world of Vintage Rolex would, according to what we know now - most likely have recognized them as original & very rare versions, and the set value accordingly.

I remember when I first time saw an AOPA Navitimer with a Valjoux 72 movement, it was for sale by "Private Eyes" in Japan. (below)
Back then I strongly denied the existence of such a watch coming from Breitling, and see what have happened over the past some 10 years, prices have gone through the roof, and will most likely continue to do so until they've reached the skies.

And when I saw the below "B Breitling Navitimer", on eBay some 10 years ago, I refrained from buying it, because I honestly didn't believe it was legit.

Both of these watches, are today every serious Navitimers collectors dream, to one day hold in their collection.

The day I find a good example of an AOPA Navitimer, in Stainless Steel with the AOPA logo in mention, then I won't hesitate trying to buy it, and I'll pay a lot of money to actually get it.

Talking about them all being off center, yes some are, maybe even the vast majority - but the attached one are within what is acceptable IMO, and I'm sure that I will find Navitimers in my collecting that are comparable off, if I dig into it, which I won't.

Kurt B http://www.kurt-b.com

So..... "Incredible near mint" aside, Is there anything else wrong with the premier?

M

that aside it's fine

The serial range of these watches would be interesting. Is the Top Time also < 1967?

These AOPA-prints are looking (to me) like they were made from an Uruguay-faker...

I have the same opinion as Eric:

I agree wholeheartedly with Kurt about keeping an open mind on these.
and what about the Wakmann / Gigandet pieces with similar printed AOPA wings?

(not my watch)

Eric, this is what I mean by being "on the fence" ? I am "keeping an open mind" - they are basically original Breitling dials with strange, inconsistent and amateurishly positioned AOPA logos, I am unsure if those dials were branded like this by Breitling, Wakmann or somebody else, maybe years later.

We haven't seen enough of them to precisely date them to a production batch, but IF we take that 18k piece as an example, they might fall into the transition period from applied to painted AOPA, around the time when Breitling introduced the twin plane logo for their non-AOPA Navitimers - so clearly a transitional period, which makes the possibility of that strange logo slightly more likely, maybe Breitling shipped out "unbranded" dials when the final "new AOPA" logo when moving away from the applied one wasn't entirely clear yet ?

But we most probably agree that this was a time of great success for Breitling, just before they introduced loads of new Top Time, SuperOcean and Co-Pilot models with impeccable production quality and clear branding strategy, so those crooked, uncentered logos are surprising, aren't they ?

Eric, the "Wakmann" triple date you show actually adds to that confusion - why do we see that very similar crooked logo on a Gigandet-produced piece that shares no other design specifics or components with watches from Breitling's production ?

Yes Kurt, the Rolex and Heuer guys would all shout "PROTOTYPE" or "MEGARARE TRANSITIONAL" and fall over themselves driving up prices for these; I rather wouldn't join them ?

on the fence, comfortably.

All very valid points Fred... and I agree that the Wakmann pilots and Gigandet pieces support the claim that these logos were not printed in a Breitling factory.

As I hinted at in a previous post, it seems very plausible the wings were added some time after production, perhaps at the same place the Wakmann and Gigandet dials were branded AOPA. ...

I think one problem in this discussion is that different people may have different opinions on what is acceptable for an "original" dial or watch. For example, if a batch of watches were shipped by Breitling to fill an order for the AOPA, and the logos on the dials for whatever reason were eventually printed on in a facility somewhere other than the Breitling factory, some may consider this acceptable, and some may not. In my opinion, if the logos were printed in a separate factory to fill an order it would simply be a cool quirky detail about that particular batch of watches, and should not affect the value negatively whatsoever.

When I said to "keep an open mind" I simply meant that I did not believe these were printed by a guy in his basement!

hmmmmm....... they sure look like that, though

again, I happily accept all other opinions, as long as we don't start to value red or white "prototypes" like the H&Rs ....