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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:54 pm 
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I know that Breitling uses modular movements quite a bit, but from doing some reading online it seems that there are quite a few people that look down on them. It seems like the biggest compliant (particularly of the eta 2892 with a DD chronograph module) is that they can be more difficult to service, so much so, that many watch makers will replace the module rather than do any work on it. I was wondering if this was the case for Breitling service centers. I also would be interested to hear your opinions and ownership experience with modular movements.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:07 am 
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I am a great admirer of Jack Heuer. My 2824 with Lemania chrono pack is superb. It was a great choice for the Heuer Pilot and I can't fault it. Even the deep seated date wheel is not such a bad thing. Not sure if it was his idea or something he picked up on very early, but there is nothing wrong with modular movements and they have a place. They keep a watch price down and they can have all manner of enhancements, if needs be. So, why not.

I have no idea why some would look down on them. Some people can never be satisfied.

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"You have Control".


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:19 am 
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I think that we need to separate the concept of modular movements from the 2892 / DD movement. By definition Breitling's in house movement is modular because it is designed to allow additional functions to be added, but let's stick to the idea of a base caliber with a chronograph module. The vast majority of owners wouldn't know if they had a modular movement or an integrated chronograph, and wouldn't even realise that the crown and pushers were offset. If the design and implementation is done well then there really is no practical issue, in fact repairs might be easier depending on the problem that needs to be resolved.

In terms of the 2892 with the DD module the module separates from the movement with 3 screws - doesn't get much easier than that, and the 2892 is a pretty simple movement without too many issues - there are wear problems with some of the wheels, but that's solved with replacement. The DD module is a bit of a different story, but that has nothing to do with the fact that it's modular, it's just a weird design. A number of the wheels have internal lubricant which can't be serviced so the module can effectively be ruined just by putting the wrong parts in the ultrasound. Chrono issues can also occur which economically will generally mean replacement because the cost of the module vs. the cost of labour to disassemble, diagnose, repair and reassemble makes servicing less than practical. But again, that's a DD issue, not a modular movement issue.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:05 pm 
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Does the b19 movement use a the DD chronograph module? or any Breitlings?? I was aware of Omega and others not Breitling. I think the DD module is used when the thickness of the case is required to be slim. The DD module while difficult to service seems to work very well and appears in some very expensive watches.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:14 pm 
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I believe that all of Breitling's calibers based on ETA modular movements use DD.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:14 pm 
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Taken from elsewhere and in answer to my question -

Quote:
What Makes it Tick

One of the most asked questions on the forum is “What calibre is my watch”. Here is your answer. This list was originally compiled and posted by Doug Darter in his excellent FAQ article on the old forum in 2003. With the help of many knowledgeable forum members, it is now updated to encompass more Breitling calibres. To date, 2006, there are 30 mechanical, 13 quartz, and 9 superquartz (thermocompensated) calibres.

The numbers below reflect the “new” Breitling numbering system that went into effect in 1980. If you look at the back of the case on your watch and get the numbers, you will be able to tell what movement is in your watch. A typical model number has a letter followed by 5 numbers. For instance, A42362. The letter denotes the case material of the watch, the next 2 numbers denote the Breitling calibre, the next number will usually be a 3 or a 0. If a 3 it is a COSC certified watch, if a 0, it is non COSC. The last 2 numbers are model specific.

Case material designations

A all stainless steel
B stainless steel with 18K gold rider tabs,crown, and pushers, all models 1980-present except Navitimer series 1980-1992. On these, B represents a 20 micron full rolled gold bezel.
C stainless steel with solid 18k rose gold bezel and rider tabs. 18k rolled rose gold crown and pushers.
D stainless steel with a 18K gold bezel, all models
E all titanium
F titanium and gold
H rose gold
J white gold
K yellow gold
L platinum

From our example of A42362, we can see this watch has a stainless steel case, the Breitling calibre 42 movement, it is COSC certified, and it is a Breitling B-2. (The last numbers, 62).

So whether you have a brand new Navitimer, the world’s oldest continuously produced chronograph, an older quartz model, or anything in between, you will be able to tell what makes your watch tick.

Thanks to Doug Darter, the moderators, and all who helped with this list.


Mechanical Calibres

B10 ETA 2892-A2
B12 Lemania 1873 or 1877 (handwound)
B13 Valjoux 7750
B 15 ETA 2892-A2
B17 ETA 2824
B18 ETA 2892-A2
B19 ETA 2892-A2
B20 Valjoux 7750
B 21 Valjoux 7751
B 22 ETA 2892-A2
B 23 Valjoux 7750
B 24 Valjoux 7754
B 26 ETA 2892-A2
B 27 2006 Skyracer (Base movement unconfirmed)
B 30 ETA 2892-A2
B 32 ETA 2892-A2
B33 ETA 2892-A2
B34 ETA Piguet Rattrapante 1186
B35 ETA 2892
B36 ETA 2892
B37 ETA 2895
B38 ETA 2892-A2
B39 ETA 2892-A2
B40 ETA 2892-A2
B41 ETA 2892
B42 ETA 2892
B43 Valjoux 7758
B44 ETA 2892
B45 ETA 2834-2
B48 2005 Montbrillant (base movement unconfirmed)
B49 2006 Cockpit Big Date ETA 2896 (22 jewels)

Note: The ETA 2892 movements used in Breitling chronographs have been modified by the addition of a Chronograph module by Dubois/Depraz.

Quartz calibres

B50 1990s Colt ETA
B51 Miyota Y652
B52 ETA 956.112
B53 ETA 251.262
B55 (Meca quartz) Piguet
B56 ETA 998.332
B57 ETA 955.412
B59 Miyota C3510
B64 ETA 955.612
B65 ETA 998.332
B67 ETA 956.612
B68 ETA E20.331
B69 (Meca quartz) Piguet 1271 (rattrapante)
B 71 Super quartz (SQ)
B 72 Super quartz (SQ)
B 73 Super quartz (SQ)
B 74 Super quartz (SQ)
B 75 Super quartz (SQ)
B 76 Super quartz (SQ)
B 77 Super quartz (SQ)
B 78 Super quartz (SQ)
B 79 Super quartz (SQ)
B 80 Co-Pilot module. Quartz digital.

It may seem odd, with so many different Breitling calibre numbers, that in reality, Breitling (apart from quartz calibres), mostly use only 4 movements.

These are:

ETA (previously Valjoux) 7750

ETA 2824

ETA 2834

ETA 2892

The ETA/Valjoux 7750, is currently the ONLY integrated chronograph movement used by Breitling.

The remainder are all automatic movements with calendar complication.

The ETA 2892/A2 whilst being a non chrono movement, is used by Breitling having been fitted with a modular mechanical chronograph module by Dubois/Depraz.

The ETA 2892 A2/DD is used because of it's very small dimensions... even with a chronograph module fitted, it is one of the smallest chronograph movements in existence. It is the movement that is used in the more complicated chronographs, because its modular construction allows the fitting of other modules by Breitling Chronometrie, ie, moonphase, month, year, season etc. It is capable of being used as a QP (quantieme perpetual, or perpetual calendar) movement. You can always recognise a Breitling Chronograph fitted with the 2892, because of a 3mm offset between the crown, and the pushpieces.

Some Breitling Chronometrie modifications also permit the 7750
to be fitted with some additional complications, though not as easily as the 2892A2/DD.

The other two ETA movements 2824/2834 are used for the non chronograph modules, and are capable of being fitted with day/date modules, and other complications, where necessary.



Last updated 5/23/06 by RBT


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:30 pm 
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On a roll..

Quote:
Inside Dubois-Depraz – Empire Of The Watch Movement Module
By Ariel Adams on October 12, 2011
Inside Dubois Depraz Empire Of The Watch Movement Module watch experiences

Fresh movements come in these plastic containers

On an uncommonly warm day in early October I visited a place few watch writers go - the manufacture (well one of them) of Dubois-Depraz. High-up in the mountainous region of Switzerland's famous Vallee de Joux the factory sits among many famous watch brands. Dubois-Depraz is a key cog in the watch industry you know and love, but they don't make watches.
Inside Dubois Depraz Empire Of The Watch Movement Module watch experiences

Individual gears are meticulously tested for precision and utility

Unlike the many curated tours of watch factories I am subject to, my guide at Dubois-Depraz wasn't a PR guide. He probably just spoke English a bit better than the other people there. The manufacture is operated by two of the three Dubois brothers, and it has been in the family since its inception in 1901. The component maker currently is comprised of three locations, and I got to visit the most important facility - the assembly plant.

The air of the facility is very industrial. There is a bit more hustle and bustle here than in many other watch manufactures - but the white lab coat attire is familiar. Noisily machines operate as ambient sound fills the room with the repetitive operations of pins being connected to plates and gears being tested. Parts aren't actually produced at this location - that is still mostly done by Dubois-Depraz, but elsewhere. Here parts are tested and put together into their final forms. I notice that the type of person here is different than in-house as most brands. The workers are older, more mature looking. It is very common for the average age of people working at even the highest-end watch manufactures to be about 25. Dubois-Deprez has a more lived in feel that is comforting.
Inside Dubois Depraz Empire Of The Watch Movement Module watch experiences

Audemars Piguet & Girard-Perregaux are just some of Dubois-Depraz's ongoing clients

In addition to chronographs, Dubois-Depraz specializes in calendar modules

Without trying to be fancy the workers plow through the tedious effort of assembling watch movement modules. Their construction is very similar to complete watch movements, and they each still take months to complete given the bevy of steps involved from start to finish. What people really don't quite understand is that even your basic mechanical watch movement takes a lot time to put together. It is a matter of weeks if not months, and the movements pass through the hands of many people who each construct, inspect, decorate, assemble, and test. And sometimes the steps are repeated more than once. Seeing just parts of the process makes one understand not only what makes a Swiss watch "Swiss," but why they aren't cheap. There is real effort and time in these little items of passion that the Swiss won't stop making until time itself is a concept we have forgotten.
Inside Dubois Depraz Empire Of The Watch Movement Module watch experiences

Even many Richard Mille chronograph watches have a lot of Dubois-Depraz in them

Chronograph gears are ultra-fine and involve delicate assembly

As mentioned, Dubois-Depraz is not a watch movement maker. A watch movement is the basic mechanism for storing and releasing power in order to indicate the time. It is comprised of a mainspring barrel, an escapement assembly, and some gears that move hands. What Dubois-Depraz makes are modules that can sit on base movements (such as the ETA 2892 which is a very popular choice for a base movement) and adds additional functionality. There certainly are "wholly integrated" movements that include time-telling as well as other functions, but it is very expensive to develop these. It makes a lot more sense in most instances to use a tried and true base movements with a module placed on top of it to add a chronograph, calendar, etc...

Dubois-Depraz has a long list of talents and clients, but their unofficial specialty are chronograhs and calendar mechanism. They also like making movements that feature both. Making a reliable chronograph is a pain, and many important brands work with Dubois-Depraz for a host of needs ranging from entire movement modules to specific hard to manufacture parts. You'd honestly be surprised at who uses their services on a regular basis.

Average worker here is a bit more mature than those working in-house at many brands

Some of Dubois-Depraz's largest clients are major brands in the Swatch and Richemont Group - as well as Rolex. Yes, even Rolex relies on Dubois-Depraz for at least a few important parts in some of their movements. Brands I know they work with include Breitling, Omega, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Rolex, Patek-Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Richard Mille, and a lot others. For example the chronograph part of the movements in many Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Offshores are produced here at Dubois-Depraz. It might be surprising, even thought-provoking to learn that proud and important brands such of these rely on external suppliers for parts and expertise. That is one way of looking at it, especially given how much brands like to talk themselves up in terms of their technical achievements. Another way of looking at it is to simply understand the nature of "Swiss Made."

Switzerland is a homogenous collectivist society. They believe that Swiss is best, but that the Swiss must also work together for the common good. That is especially true in the watch making world where things get pretty incestuous. As long as you are mingling with Swiss (and to a large extent Germans and the French), things are a gonna be OK in their eyes. For me, Dubois-Depraz offers an expert service, and they do it well. If Patek Philippe or Jaeger-LeCoultre comes to them for parts, it is because they probably do a pretty good job.

Efficent practices has Dubois-Depraz producing over 100,000 movement modules each year

Palette jewels set by hand into tray for automated placement into modules

Years of developing special modules for dozens of brands has given Dubois-Depraz a very large catalog of watch modules they can produce. They mostly work with base ETA movements, but also often with Girard-Perregaux and Jaeger-LeCoultre base movements as well. There is some extremely high-end work that goes on here, and most of their client projects are totally confidential until completion.

Spending time at their manufacture helped me appreciate just how complex a chronograph mechanism is to make. Not necessarily in terms of sheer engineering, but rather at how each cam, pinion, and gear must be painstakingly tested for precision and durability. I saw patient workers place individual gears into microscope machines used to ensure the gears spun perfectly with out wiggling. Another machine was used to test the precise torque of springs used to reset chronograph hands to their starting position. Even the insertion of a pinion into a gear is done carefully, and by hand - each time. According to Dubois-Depraz they produce on the low end about 120,000 watch modules per year.

The production of modules is very similar to that of base movements

Banners for the company around town

I gained a lot of respect for the chronograph after visiting with Dubois-Depraz. I also learned a lot more about how the watch industry works. Suffice it to say that educating yourself about the watch industry is like understanding watch movement. From the surface if can appear decorated and impressive, but you really need to get inside of it to start understanding the nuances and see how things work together (for the better or the worse). Thanks to the Dubois brothers and thanks to the people at Dubois-Depraz for their open doors.


http://www.ablogtowatch.com/inside-dubo ... nt-module/


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