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BS LE3 confirmed buyers count
https://www.breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=28552		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  mfserge [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BS LE3 confirmed buyers count
Roffensian wrote:
dhalem wrote:
It's like Florida in 2000 around here.



I fail to see the downside of giving as many people as possible a chance to decide how they want to spend their money.



Just as long as they have intentions of buying right??? Can't forget that disclaimer. Let's go BIG RED!!
Author:  Roffensian [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BS LE3 confirmed buyers count
mfserge wrote:
Roffensian wrote:
dhalem wrote:
It's like Florida in 2000 around here.



I fail to see the downside of giving as many people as possible a chance to decide how they want to spend their money.



Just as long as they have intentions of buying right??? Can't forget that disclaimer. Let's go BIG RED!!



To the best of my knowledge no one has been required to commit, I believe that most people who have voted have said 'maybe'.
Author:  Driver8 [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BS LE3 confirmed buyers count
OK, as this is obviously causing friction due to a lack of rules (which we've never needed before incidentally), let's try to be a bit clearer about this. Altair - please jump in if any of this contradicts your thoughts.

To start with, there are currently no fixed RULES on who can and who can't vote for any of the options. However, (and I can't stress this enough) I would appeal to everybody's sense of maturity and thoughtfulness towards others when deciding whether or not to vote. If you are genuinely interested in purchasing this watch, subject to colours/hands/dial etc, then by all means vote for whatever you like the best - this is basically what all us original "maybes" did - and the majority will win. It's that simple. HOWEVER, if you know in your own mind that you wouldn't buy this watch irrespective of colours/hands/caseback etc, then please DO NOT vote. Obviously I'm not for one minute suggesting that anyone would do this, but just for the sake of clarity, the reasons behind avoiding that kind of behaviour are three-fold :-

Firstly, by voting with no intention to buy, you will potentially skew the results to such an extent that a watch gets designed that no-one will want to buy. Apart from being an entirely pointless exercise, it will disappoint those who genuinely would've bought it if the design hadn't been skewed by disinterested parties.

Secondly, it will mess Gunter Steinhart around as he will have to spend time figuring out if our requests can be met, plus mocking up designs for the final model. Ultimately the guy is trying to run a business (probably at a fairly small margin given the fairly low prices he charges for excellent watches), so let's not mess him around unnecessarily.

And thirdly, Altair puts a lot of time into getting these LE's off the ground, including all the negotiations with Steinhart, so I personally believe his time and effort deserves a little respect. Getting traction on these things with such a diverse group of people with cultural and language barriers at times is no easy task. I'm 100% sure Altair doesn't run these things out of vanity : I always get the impression he does it simply out of a love of watches, and an enjoyment of being part of this community. IMO that should be applauded, not taken advantage of.

And irrespective of all that, the final upshot will be that no-one will have any incentive whatsoever to try to run a special LE project here ever again. Surely we all agree that would be a bad thing?

So, if we want rules/disclaimers maybe we should consider re-running all the polls to date, with a fixed time limit for each poll (say, 7, 10 or 14 days for example) and the stipulation that if you vote, you MUST also make a post in the thread to say what you voted or else your vote will be discounted? Over to you on that one Altair.... (I'm out of this one now irrespective, so I have nothing to gain by suggesting this, other than ensuring the watch people want gets built).
Author:  aleister [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BS LE3 confirmed buyers count
With the polls open again, I'm a "maybe" until the design is finalized. :)
Author:  andrew692003 [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BS LE3 confirmed buyers count
Well said D8!!

I for one started of quite excited about this project with the full intension of purchasing IF I like the final product but I'm fully aware that the majority rules and I'm quite happy with that and won't be trying to sway anyones opinion or 'goad' people into picking a colour that they know may well dissapoint others.

As far as I can remember the last two projects went quite well in terms of choosing different options and most people seemed happy with the final outcome, one of the reasons I thought I would give this a go!

Hopefully things will run smoothly!

Thanks Altair for your hard work its certainly appreciated from me anyway!

Cheers
Author:  Altair [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BS LE3 confirmed buyers count
Thanks for the clarification and the kind words Driver. Which explains things in a way that I couldn't add upon. However I would like to add the following.

First of all, this project is ment as a service to the community, not unlike the many reviews, guides, advice, and efforts by our mods and admin. Small ways we try and give back to a community that we have enjoyed being part of. Just like the Internet as a whole, the best websites are created by passionate contributors who maintain and add to them, then there are those who lurk and take advantage of those communities, and lastly the trolls who, either intentionally or through their nature, ruin it for the rest. I think the way the last two LEs where executed in contrast to this one reflects on the character of those involved, and the fact that we seem to be forced to explain our intentions, is another indicator. No one has a hidden agenda here.

Honestely this doesn't effect me all that much, if someone annoys me I can simply tell them to get lost and bite the big one, but it does add unnecessary effort to our mods who are somehow able to keep the peace and minimize banning to the spammers. Although I applaud their efforts I can't see this going on forever and I dearly hope the situation doesn't get so out of hand that a change of policy is required. I say assume the best about people or contain your negativity to a separate thread. Trust me no one is threatened by your manner and you are less likely to get your way.

Lastely, as I stated this community is as grate as it is because of the efforts of our mods, so let's cut them some slack, and by the contributions of it's members, so keep the ideas and comments coming. A prime example would be the way aleister does it. He presented his concern and, since it was a valid point and presented in a rational way, got resolved. Our mod team and the majority of members are level headed and fair, try to keep up.
Author:  mfserge [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BS LE3 confirmed buyers count
Driver8 wrote:
So, if we want rules/disclaimers maybe we should consider re-running all the polls to date, with a fixed time limit for each poll (say, 7, 10 or 14 days for example) and the stipulation that if you vote, you MUST also make a post in the thread to say what you voted or else your vote will be discounted? Over to you on that one Altair.... (I'm out of this one now irrespective, so I have nothing to gain by suggesting this, other than ensuring the watch people want gets built).


You already had people reveal their color choice earlier in the thread but that wasnt sufficient obviously. This project has so far been a disaster, all because a few people don't like the winning color....and those people just happen to be the two mods and the person who is running the show. Interesting coincidence. I'm out regardless of the winning color....good luck with the project.
Author:  mfserge [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BS LE3 confirmed buyers count
And another thing Driver...how could voting skew the results to a design that no one will buy. If memory serves me correct, you did the mock ups and Altair chose 5 of his favorite colors. Whynwould one of his selections be so bad that no one would buy??

Doesnt make sense to me.
Author:  Driver8 [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BS LE3 confirmed buyers count
mfserge wrote:
Driver8 wrote:
So, if we want rules/disclaimers maybe we should consider re-running all the polls to date, with a fixed time limit for each poll (say, 7, 10 or 14 days for example) and the stipulation that if you vote, you MUST also make a post in the thread to say what you voted or else your vote will be discounted? Over to you on that one Altair.... (I'm out of this one now irrespective, so I have nothing to gain by suggesting this, other than ensuring the watch people want gets built).


You already had people reveal their color choice earlier in the thread but that wasnt sufficient obviously. This project has so far been a disaster, all because a few people don't like the winning color....and those people just happen to be the two mods and the person who is running the show. Interesting coincidence. I'm out regardless of the winning color....good luck with the project.

Thanks for the input - as constructive as ever. If you look back through the thread you'll see I was more than happy to lock the polling threads up on Altair's request, and did so with red winning the day. Then two other genuinely interested members said they missed the chance to vote, so I reopened the thread for them and any others who may want to get on board. I guess we should've just told them to take a hike, eh? Missed their chance and all that? Or alternatively we can give them the chance to have their say, just like you've had yours. If they vote red, then great - the majority rules. This isn't remotely about what colour wins. I'm out of this project now irrespective of colour - I've said that in a couple of my posts, and you even quoted it above - so to suggest that my post has anything to do with me not liking the colour is pretty insulting actually.

If you take the time to read the entire post, I'm not saying we should re-run the polls - I was merely responding to your comments earlier in your latest disagreement with Roff about supposed "disclaimers" on who should vote. I was just trying to make things clearer as while I personally assumed it'd be obvious that non-interested parties ideally shouldn't vote, I guess it wasn't immediately obvious to everyone. Hopefully most people will see that I was attempting to provide clarity in a reasonable manner, not attempting to get into yet another disagreement with you.
Author:  Driver8 [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BS LE3 confirmed buyers count
mfserge wrote:
And another thing Driver...how could voting skew the results to a design that no one will buy. If memory serves me correct, you did the mock ups and Altair chose 5 of his favorite colors. Whynwould one of his selections be so bad that no one would buy??

Doesnt make sense to me.

OK let me explain. Suppose 5 people who genuinely wanted to buy a watch voted for Blue, but another 10 people (who have no intention of buying the final watch but just vote for which colour they like or think would look cool) vote for Green. Green would win 10 - 5, so that would go forward as the design, but none of the people who voted green would buy it, because they were never going to in the first place, and the 5 who voted Blue won't buy it because it's green. Therefore the results would be skewed and in the worst case scenario, a watch that no-one, or very few people, would want would be built. Hence my post, attempting to clarify that if people know in their own minds that they won't buy the finished watch then they shouldn't vote, that's all.
Author:  Roffensian [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BS LE3 confirmed buyers count
Altair, my apologies for what I am about to post - I don't mean to derail your thread even further, but I intend to say this publicly so that there is no possible confusion on the part of anyone.



Sergio,

In February you were given a formal warning for your open conflict with CountDuckula. Since then your posts have become even more inflamatory, you have deliberately attempted to bait me, and are now trying to provoke Driver8. I don't want to ban you from this forum, and if you don't believe that then the fact that you are still a member should be evidence enough after some of your posts in the last few weeks.

The sticky post at the top of the main Breitling forum makes it clear that a standard of behaviour is expected here - those are Admin's rules, not mine or Driver8's. You consistently ignore those rules and seem to think that you should be subject to a different standard of behaviour than other people. On two separate occasions you have sent me PMs asking me to delete posts critical of you because they quote PMs - there's no rule preventing people from quoting PMs, and yet you expect to be allowed to be rude whenever you feel like it, and there is a stated standard that civility is expected.

You will not be warned anymore.

The next inflamatory post from you will result in a ban from this forum - I trust that is clear so that it won't come as a surprise.

This is public so that everyone is clear on that, your friends on this forum can again advise you as they see fit, and if you feel that this is unfair you can contact admin by PM (username BreitlingSource) linking to this post. I am sure that you will also show him the multiple posts where you have been rude to Count Duckula, myself and others.



There will not be further debate in this thread about this topic. Any post in this thread that is not from people indicating interest or otherwise in the LE3 will be deleted.


Altair, again, my apologies.

Roff.
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