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Why do so many new Breitlings not perform to Cosc?
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Author:  ianmedium [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Why do so many new Breitlings not perform to Cosc?
Scanning the various forums including this wonderful one I notice that quite a few new Breitlings do not perform to COSC spec when new and quite a few (like mine) need to go back to be regulated so that they do.

I have no problem with that but it does beg the question, Why?

Supposedly these watch movements have passed Cosc so I would have thought each and every one would perform correctly right out of the box!

Can anyone with greater knowledge than I explain how a movement can pass such rigorous tests and then a few weeks later when being worn come no where near to them!

By the way I know this affects other COSC movements and not Just Breitling and it affects not one iota my love for this spectacular watch and brand. I have been fully converted to a Breitling lover 1st class :D
Author:  hnb [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
I wonder if it really is a common thing though...
I have no clue how many B´s are being sold evrey year, but since it must be thousands I can understand if a few ones are gainers/losers.

Would be interesting to compare this to some other large manufacturer, say Rolex, Omega or JLC, but I guess that statistics like that is impossible to find.
Author:  ianmedium [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
It probably is a very small amount, I agree and I am sure other brands are the same!
I would not change mine for the world and mine has been regulated and now performs well withing spec!
I am guessing it must be something to do with the movements going through the assembly process once back at Breitling and then storage and such, just wondered as if it is not consistent why bother COSC'ing them if they then have to be regulated afterwords?
Author:  hnb [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes, makes you wonder... I think the answer is that a COSC cert is a good selling point.

Personally I think the "tuning" of a watch is part of the charm of a mechanical watch, even though it can be frustrating to have to send your watch to an AD.
It is a real machine and it needs to be maintained in order to perform.
Author:  Driver8 [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:55 am ]
Post subject: 
Personally I think there's a lot to do with the old situation where people will moan very loudly if things go wrong, but tend to keep quiet when things are great. For example you don't tend to get lots of people writing into forums waxing lyrical about how their watch is totally within COSC specs.

I heard the statistic once, that a satisfied customer will on average tell 2 people about it, while a dissatisfied one will tell 10.
Author:  Sharkmouth [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Couple of questions on COSC

1. Is the test done on the movement only (prior to assembly) or to the assembled watch (presumably head only)?

2. Is every single watch tested or just samples from a batch?
Author:  Driver8 [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:01 am ]
Post subject: 
Sharkmouth wrote:
Couple of questions on COSC

1. Is the test done on the movement only (prior to assembly) or to the assembled watch (presumably head only)?

2. Is every single watch tested or just samples from a batch?

Well, reading the "Made by Breitling" book, the COSC testing is done on the movement only prior to assembly, and every single movement is tested.
Author:  Sharkmouth [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:31 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Driver.

So if the movements are all tested, it would seem it is the assembly process which causes the accuracy to falter. I guess like in every other assembly process there are "Friday afternoon" watches but you would think Breitling QC would pick them up.

As you rightly say, it may be only 1 in 10,000 but that one person will not be slow to voice their concerns - that is unless they're English in which case they will probably just mutter something quietly under their breath and vow to buy a Rolex/Omega next time ;-)
Author:  Roffensian [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:03 am ]
Post subject: 
Some very good points here, but let's also understand what the test includes. It is a rigorous test, performed on every movement used by Breitling, over a number of days, in various positions and at various temepratures. That's thorough, but it's not real world.

The stresses that my watch is going through just by typing this are different to the test performed on the movement, and real world use will inevitably have impact on accuracy. Think about it - the accuracy is impacted by the way that you lay your watch at night, so just imagine what wearing the darned thing does!

Add to that the fact that after testing the movement is not only assembled into a watch but subjected to cycles of rough activity and then long periods of inactivity (including the movement not moving) during the manufacturing / shipping / sales processes and it's easy to see how a small percentage of the hundreds of thousands of movements may be slightly off.

Finally, in addition to the comments about satisfied people keeping quiet, most people will ask / post when they first receive their piece, which is when it is likely to be least accurate as it adjusts to a regular routine of wear and use.
Author:  ianmedium [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:18 am ]
Post subject: 
All good points gentlemen and I see the picture forming as to the reasons why!
I agree about the comment on customers only reporting bad news as well!

I love the fact my watch has a heart beat that can occasionally skip! It reminds me of when I was a child and I used to work with my Uncle on his vintage Lagonda's. They would always need tweaking and fettling and that was part of the joy of the experience of ownership!

I love the fact that my watch requires my human input to work at it's best!

I think from reading the posts the original question is answered in that it is a combination of assembly, shipping and storage that makes a few of the watches go out of true.

A little fettling and you get a watch such as mine that is now running just under a second a day! That to me is a true testament to the engineering standards of Breitling!
Author:  finallymadeit [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:44 am ]
Post subject: 
Expectations about the level of precision and accuracy is set by Breitling and I don't blame the gents that got the 1 in 10,000 or whatever # for being at least a little disappointed :( that their particular watches were outside of those specs and needed to be adjusted. And, if Breitling tests every movement in all those conditions and every watch has passed COSC standards (which also would seem to be more rigorous than just daily use by us, after all, pretty much all product tests that I can think of are put through conditions much worse than would ever be reasonably expected from “normal” use) then we all should get what they have sold us. After all, they market the level of perfection, high standards, and superb quality and that is all part of what we are paying for :roll: .

All that being said, I agree with IAN in there is sort of personality that the mechanical watches have and it “varies” like we do. I have a relatively new Colt Chrono with the SuperQuartz and it has behaved perfectly every day since I bought it :wink: . The personality of my watch is also in the look of it for me in the beautiful details and styling of these watches. It just so happened that I ended up with a non-mechanical Breitling since I liked everything else about the watch and I won’t mind the lower cost of servicing it.

In the end, not every production process is perfect and there is always some margin for error and imperfection, however small.

Later for now fellows, I must say there have been some very lively posts in recent days and I have very much enjoyed the various topics and opinions :D
Author:  BroncoSport [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
All three of my Breitling perform to COSC specs.

Black Steelfish is around 5+

Silver Steelfish is around 4+

Evolution runs very nicely around 2-3+

That is when I checked them last... (months ago). I would like the Black Steelfish to be a little closer since its my daily watch but Im afraid of the minus symbol after regulating and I would rather it be a little fast than slow.

Scott
Author:  bnewbie [ Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Roffensian wrote:
It is a rigorous test, performed on every movement used by Breitling, over a number of days, in various positions and at various temepratures. That's thorough, but it's not real world.

True. Every one of us have different ´moving´ habits. When the power reserve is on lower values the watch will loosing more (or gaining less) and when the main spring is full tensioned watch will gain more (or lose less).
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