The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Hi all, been a while since I've posted but I'm very grateful to the forum for putting me in touch with George at Govberg, who provided me with a very fine brushed Blackbird back in August.

I unfortunately have a slight problem with the watch and wanted to check with the experts here what they think it could be. Sometimes (maybe once or twice a month, but there is no pattern to the day on which it happens), the date wheel does not change properly - it either overshoots or doesn't quite go far enough.

Now I read up on absolutely everything on this forum before getting the watch and I am well aware of the dangers of date changing between 8pm and 3am issues, and as a result have been sure not to do this ever since I've had the watch. In fact I've always been paranoid of damaging the mechanism given everything I've read, so have been scrupulously careful on this point.

The watch has had this 'feature' ever since I got it in the post from George (I think the first time it happened was a day after I got it). I have read that it takes time for new movements to settle down, so I was hoping that it might just take some time to settle, but it's still doing it from time to time (still once or twice a month, random dates).

The other thing is that the watch originally had a fairly jerky second hand, so despite keeping very good time, the second hand would occasionally pause for a couple of seconds, then speed up to catch up with where it should be. The interesting thing is that this problem, which I had also hoped was a teething problem, has gone, and the second hand is now about as smooth as I would expect.

So, can anyone give me any guidance on what this could be, and what the remedy is? I'm sure that it will involve taking the watch to an AD, but I'm rather concerned given some of the posts on here that if I do I might not see it again for a few months... That said, while the problem is only mildy irritating in practice, it is far more irritating to have spent so much money on a watch to have something like this happen, so I'd like to get it fixed.

I assume that it's the chrono seconds hand? That's a fairly common issue that a service centre can adjust.

The Blackbird has an instant change date so doubt that it's the 'usual' problem, but it will need Breitling attention.

Thanks for the reply - it's the subdial second hand I'm talking about (3 o'clock subdial on the blackbird). The chronograph mechanism has always been smooth when running, even when running at the same time the normal second hand was jerking.

With regards to the date issue, if that needs to be fixed, is it best to take it to an AD or to send diretly to Breitling? I live in Paris, so not sure which Breitling entity is in charge here.

If to an AD, can anyone recommend a good one in Paris? Obviously I got the watch in the US, so don't have any connections here.

Definitely needs Breitling attention - unusual for the normal 'jerking' to be visible in the subdial so something else may be going on.

Breitling no longer lists service centres on its website so not sure who best to go through.

oops, just noticed that the yare on the site

Under Maintenance Centres, looks like there are three in Paris - Casty Delphes, Royal Quartz and Wempe

Exellent, two of those are near to my office. Had looked for the ADs on the site but hadn't noticed the Maintenance Centres.

The second hand issue has now settled down pretty much completely, it's really the date thing that's bothering me. Would be interested to hear of any possible causes for that. Sounds like it's worth getting it checked out in any case.

Thanks again for the advice.

I'm not particularly confident in offering a potential cause, because I am not that familiar with the instant change date mechanisms (from a movement mechanics standpoint).

I suspect that the problemmay be a damaged wheel, but the cause is less obvious on this type of movement. Onewatchnut will have better ideas.

Argghh! Itermittent problems are alway difficult.

It's virtually impossible to troubleshoot this without having the watch. We can rule out the date wheel since it doesn't occur on the same date(s) every time. There is a date drive wheel with a pawl that engages the tooth on the date wheel and moves it forward. It is driven by an intermediate wheel off the hour wheel. There is also a spring mechanism that assists the date change. If I had to guess, I would look in the area of the pawl and spring.

What is more troubling to me is the action of the seconds bit. Have you monitored the accuracy of the movement? The seconds bit (hand) is connected directly to the time train. If it is intermittent but the chrono sweep is smooth at the same time, it appears that the hand is loose. Problems like this get worse instead of better. So, I am really curious about this one. What is troubling is the fact that it catches up. Again, without seeing it I'm unable to come up with a viable analysis.

_________________
1809 Cosmonaute
1903 Navi
Navi Olympus
Super Avenger

Well here's a bit more info if it's of any use/interest:

- The issue with the date has only ever happened to the units wheel, not the 10s wheel.
- The accuracy of the movement is pretty good, on average the watch gains a couple of seconds a day, maybe 4s. Accuracy has improved since I got the watch, which I understand is normal.
- The jerky second hand motion has virtually ceased and it is now smooth, although it was jerky for probably 10 weeks after I got the watch.

I'd like to ask you guys another question about the movement. How is the second hand linked to the hour and minute hands? More specifically, what should one expect with regards to the minute hand hitting the minute markers precisely when the second hand hits the top of the dial? In the case of my watch, there seems to be a delay of around 25s when you push the crown back in to the minute hand starting to move. Hence, if I pull out the crown when the second hand is at the top of the dial and set the minute hand exactly on a minute marker, when I set the watch going again the minute hand will be almost half way between the minute markers when the second hand hits the top - not pretty. This can be overcome by stopping the second hand at the 35 marker, setting the minute hand to an exact minute, and restarting. This always works; the delay is a fixed offset.

So, should the two be linked up in the sense that when setting the time you should always stop the second hand at the top of the dial, or should there be a (variable) delay so that the second hand 'picks up' the minute hand only when it gets to the top of its first sweep and hence the two are always in sync? In my watch's case, neither happens! To me the second of the two options would be more useful, but is presumably much more complicated to implement.

Finally, what sort of play should there be in the crown when setting the time? In my watch there is perhaps 1/3 of a turn. Wondering if this is normal or perhaps related.

The two different date wheels have some unique wheels so the fact that it only happens on one helps isolate the potential cause to a wheel that only operates the unit wheel.

The second hand doesn't sound the same as the stuttering chrono issue (which generally affects 7750 based movements), I would get it checked when the date is addressed, even if the symptoms appear to have gone away, as Marty says they don't tend to heal themselves.

There are no Breitling calibres that synch the minute and second hands.

Can't say that I have ever really measured the play in the crown, but given that the play is really only the play in the castle gear there is no way that it should be 1/3 of a turn.

I can't speak for the date issue. I can speak for the second hand / minute hand setting. I have the same issue with mine. It frustrating, but it seems you "fixed it" the same way I did.

I will say that I bought mine about 3 weeks ago and have been trying to write a suitable review with pics. I simply have not had the time. I will say it is an incredible watch. IMO much nicer than my other lings! Also, it is more comfortable.

R/

Also, the minute hand does move when the chrono is activated.

Try this:

Pull the stem when the second hand is at 12. Set the time a couple of minutes fast, then slowly reverse the hands to the correct minute without going beyond it. Carefully push the stem in without moving the hands. This will remove all the backlash in the motion works. That is the reason for the delay. If you set the time moving the hands clockwise, they will not begin to move until all the introduced backlash has been overcome.

_________________
1809 Cosmonaute
1903 Navi
Navi Olympus
Super Avenger

Guys, thanks for the tips. Onewatchnut, I tried what you had said (twice), and given your description of the mechanism I cannot understand this, but when I tried it the delay increased to around 45 seconds! I was starting to worry that the minute hand had become disconnected it took so long to move! When setting the time winding clockwise (same technique as you describe but in the opposite direction) the delay remains at about 25 seconds.

Rebel, totally agree, although I've had a couple of problems I absolutely love the watch, and the only reason I've hesitated to take it into an AD to be looked at is because I don't want to not be able to wear it while it's in! I was also planning on putting some pics etc. up on the main forum (got a rather geeky one of me wearing the watch while standing in front of an actual SR-71 Blackbird ) but work etc. have got somewhat in the way...

I too have this backlash/delay issue with my Steelfish although it is only a matter of around 4 or 5 seconds. When setting my watch I just make sure I stop the seconds hand at the 55 seconds mark while ensuring the minute hand is pointing exactly to the minute marker. I then push in the stem when the atomic clock reaches 55 seconds.

I had the same issue with my Colt Quartz II but the delay was closer to 15 seconds.

Wouldn't reversing the movement - even a couple of minutes - damage the movement in an automatic?

Peter