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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:40 pm 
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I recently found a Breitling Chronograph that was my father's and lost for the last 40 years. I am looking to see if anyone on here could help identify what I have. It is an AVI 765 with an all black face and 3 dials. From my basic research I believe it is from the early 1960's. I don't think it is a CP. I am trying to determine a value for it as well as the collectability of this watch.

I am seeing one thing that is perplexing me from most of the other AVI 765s I have seen online. Most have "swiss made" on the dial and mine has "swiss" on the dial. Also, the placement of the "swiss" is above the 6 position in the face not below like most I see.

I am also looking for a bezel and not sure if anyone know what is the correct bezel for this particular watch. Mine is missing the bezel and I see a small hole by the seven position on the watch. Does that specify which bezel should go on it.

Any insight to my questions would be very helpful. I am trying to gather as much information as I can. I am having a hard time finding anyone who really knows anything on these watches. I am trying to date it as well. I have not opened the watch yet, so I do not have a serial number.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:59 pm 
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“I am having a hard time finding anyone who really knows anything on these watches” - You didn’t look very hard my friend. These are on the first page of a google search.

https://monochrome-watches.com/breitlin ... ches-part/

http://www.vintage-breitling.com/?page_id=138

https://amsterdamvintagewatches.com/sho ... 5-1st-gen/

https://www.ssongwatches.com/products/breitling-avi-765

Re the SWISS on dial - is odd, but if the watch has been in your possession for over 40 years it’s likely ok. Damage/spotting to the rest of the dial wouldn’t suggest a redial or service replacement IMO.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:51 am 
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dial is fine, have seen that variation.
finding a correct rice beads bezel is almost impossible, I'm afraid, but maybe check w/ Mark Heist http://www.horologicalservices.com

here's how it looks w/ a correct bezel:
Image

valuations are tricky, as the missing bezel makes this a parts watch, as long as no spare bezel can be found.

excellent examples are selling around $18-20,000, down from a peak of about 25,000 two years ago; mediocre or poor examples well below



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:31 am 
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Thank you for the posts. My comment that I am having trouble finding information on the watch was to my local area, even Breitling seems to not have anyone with vintage knowledge. I have seen some of these articles and thank you for gathering them. I am still trying to figure out the "swiss" and if this is an oddity and what it may mean. Also, I see a lot of the AVIs have the panda face and few are all black. I did contact Horological Services and they told me they would have to source a bezel.

I guess I am still trying to figure out if the fact that this is the black face and "swiss" makes this one unique or more collectible.

I do really thank you your input and trying to help.

Greg


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:24 pm 
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Gfeigenbaum wrote:

I guess I am still trying to figure out if the fact that this is the black face and "swiss" makes this one unique or more collectible.

Greg


No. The earlier black dials are more collectible than the Pandas, and more valuable in general. Only Rolex collectors care about minor dial variances like you’re noting, A Breitling collector might care about a wings logo vs a twin jet on a Navi, but that’s about. The “Swiss” would have no impact on price and if it did, I would say negative, because it makes people question if it’s genuine, as you did.

You seem to know a bit about this stuff - sure you’re not a Rolex guy? I agree with Fred that without a bezel, it’s a reasonably valuable parts watch.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:25 pm 
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Thank you very much again for the additional detail. I am actually a car guy (not a Rolex guy) and I know that certain cars with oddities or options can be more collectible. I am trying to equate that same logic. That is why the "swiss" label intrigues me. I am searching for a bezel and I was told there are two types of bezels. It is likely the earlier watches have a "ball spring" bezel. As I was told. My thought was this might be why my watch has a hole in the case by the seven position. Any insight if that is the case? I also believe the earlier ones had a Steel bezel and CP have aluminum.

I am trying to do as much research as I can and appreciate the help.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:32 pm 
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Here you go

http://www.vintage-breitling.com/?page_id=134


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:34 pm 
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I’ve showed you the bezel your watch needs in the pic above - it is steel.
give us the serial and I’ll tell you how many beads it needs to be correct.



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:31 pm 
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So here is my bezel question. If I am unable to find a first generation screw bezel for this watch, will the CP bezel fit this pre-CP watch? Please let me know how you think this may work and affect the watch. It may be my only path to restoring the watch to a suitable level. Any suggestions or thoughts? Thanks,


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:53 am 
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we need the serial to answer that.
you should be able to find a Mk2 AVI bezel that should fit a Mk1.4, not a Mk1.3


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:16 am 
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Fred, Thank you again for your input. I have been hesitant to open the watch. I want to get it in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing. I am thinking of just sending it to Mark Heist. Please excuse my ignorance on this topic but what defines the Mk2 and the MK1.4 or MK1.3? Is the MK2 bezel the 40mm (I think that is right?) without the screws and just the spring? I am seeing CP bezels without the screws available, but not seeing the ones with the screws, which I am guess are first generation and I think prior to 1965. Would I be correct? Do you know if the not screw bezel will fit on the non CP AVI?

Again thank you for your input. Being this was my father's, who just passed away, I want to figure out how to restore it.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:07 am 
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there are no (or shouldn’t be) 765CP bezels w/ screws

Copilots (dates are for case production)
1953-61 Mk1 black dial rice beads steel 765AVI (Mk1.1, 1.2 & 1.3 differ in dials/hands, Mk1.4 also has a different bezel)
1962-1964 Mk2 panda dial coin edge steel 765AVI
1965-1967 Mk3 panda dial black alu bezel 765CP
1969 Mk4 panda dial black alu fat case 7650

any watchmaker can open the watch to check the serial, but suggested contacting Heist before, so suprised u are asking that.

all this info above would have been available on this forum, btw.



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:21 am 
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So I finally got the watch open and got the serial #. The serial # is 827442. Is this watch older than I think and does this make it a little rarer? Is this more desirable or less from a collectors point of view? I also see that Breitling is re-introducing this 765 AVI, will that make this watch a little more significant?

Again, any insight is helpful, thank you.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:07 pm 
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no, it tells us that it is a Mk1.3, case production late 1953, final assembly ca. 1956
means you need a „small beads“ bezel


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:19 am 
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Fred. Thank you so much again. So my challenge here is that I am unable to find the right bezel. I see you were working with Breitling on the new the new 765 AVI re-edition. Do you think that the it is possible that a Re-edition bezel would fit my Mk 1.3, if I could get one from Breitling? I think this is the closest I can get to finding something as authentic as possible. Otherwise I have to look towards a 1965 bezel with the coin edge which I am not sure will fit exactly. Do you have a thought on that? Thank you for sharing our knowledge. Greg


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