The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Talk about synchronicity! I just picked up this amazing Breitling and I just discovered this great site with a dedicated Vintage forum no less--too cool! I hope you enjoy my first post...



Some watches you pick and some pick you. I was actually on my way to buy another watch when I came across this beauty quite by accident...



...and when I saw this magnificent Breitling it completely pushed that other one right out of my mind.

I'll be happy for any additional information but from what I have been able to discover so far, this is a rather rare model 804 Triple Date Moonphase Chronograph...



...probably dating from the early 1960s. This complicated dress chronograph features a water resistant screw back case design...



...with round pushers and a beefy crown and is a rather large (compared to most triple dates of the period) 38mm. It utilizes the Valjoux caliber 88...



...which is basically a tricked out version of the redoubtable Valjoux 72 with the calendar and moonphase complications added.

But the main thing that drew me to this classic Breitling was the gorgeous original dial...



...not to mention the markers, the hands, the layout--I can't get over how beautiful this watch is! And on the wrist...



...for me, pure vintage elegance.

Well thanks for indulging my obsession with this terrific timepiece but I figured if anybody would understand, you folks would!

Look forward to going through the posts here and learning a lot since vintage watches are a passion of mine but I am hardly a Breitling expert. And I think this forum might even inspire me to take some new pics of my 806 AOPA Navi!
All the best & Happy New Year,
Tom

That is a very nice watch.

Clearly you know quite a bit about it, so can't add too much. It's actually a very early 1954 watch, the technical name for the movement is a Valjoux VZHCL (Valjoux Zahler Heuere Calendrier Lune) - the reference number is 88 as you correctly stated.

There aren't too many of these about so it's difficult to say with any certainty that it is correct, personally I believe that at least some of the hands are replacements, not unusual as these were routinely replaced during servicing.

Most important of all, welcome to BreitlingSource. We would of course love to see some pics of the 806.

Welcome and congrats on that very nice looking vintage Ling.

...personally I feel the hands are original--the chrono hands are all blued steel, which would be a strange type of replacement, and I fell that the dagger hour & minute hands are appropriate to both the pyramidal markers on the dial and the diameter of the outer minute track. Of course, I cannot be sure but that is my personal impression. Also, we see similar types of dagger hands on the 2nd gen Chronomat...



...so we know Breitling was not averse to using this style of hands.

Now about the date of production: It could well be earlier, as you say. I just figured that with the screw back case, round pushers and large size, this 804 did not look like any of the Daytoras of the period that I have seen. But if it had been produced around the same time as the early 806s with similar case features (although of course the 806 has a snap back), I reckon that would also make sense. Do you all have a Serial Number reference chart that you use to date watches via casebacks?

Thanks again very much & cheers,
Tom

Hands are definitely Breitling, just not absolutely convinced that they are the ones originally for the 804, but can't say for sure - compare here for reference:



There's a reliable serial number guide at www.navitimer.net

...it is one of the few that one can find when searching for 804s. However, I think it is likely that there are dial/hands variations with these, because while that example is similar, the dial is not quite the same. But it's very hard to find information on these, I will readily admit.

As for the SN, thanks for the link and I know that Navitimer.net is a great resource. However, there are definitely serial # anomalies. For example, this is my 806:



This is an early 60s dial and yet here is the SN:



So clearly a mismatch, right? And yet I was told this by an impeccable source in the Vintage Breitling community:

"Tom,
Sorry about the delay in answering, but your watch have caused me a lot of
headache.
Your watch is 100% original & unrestored which is very important.
It is without any doubt that the serial nr. of your watch should have been
92xxxx instead of 82xxxx, it's a mistake that was made by Breitling during
production, and there are reason to believe that quite a few was stamped
wrong, as I have seen 5-6 of them, and I have had this confirmed by a source
that knows more then anybody else about the Navitimers.
Apart from the serial nr., there are enough examples, all of which match a
consistent and well-known 1960 pattern to have that make a lot of sense.
Your watch was produced somewhere between 1960 & 1962."

And even with that theory in place, another plausible theory could be that the parts were stamped and then sat for a time prior to assembly, a distinct possibility for a low production/low demand watch like the 804.

It is my experience with vintage watches in general that unless the company has kept extremely thorough records and is wiling to share them with the public, even the most dedicated enthusiast's production charts may not always hold 100% true. These great watch companies were only responsible to their own bottom lines and not the desire for clear logic by us future collectors.
Thanks again & Happy New Year,
T.

Welcome to the board Tom. Love the 806!

The serial number guide is reliable, the problem as you were advised is with Breitling. There are definitely instances where the machines were not set up correctly and stamped the wrong numbers - it was a manual process after all. As a result there are serials that are issued twice, and some that were never issued. The argument over casebacks sitting around stamped is certainly possible, though few model had dedicated caseback blanks.

Look here for real informations about the Breitling Datoras:

http://i-am-spamming!.de/index.php?pag ... 70c8266b76

Amazing watches you have posted here. Thanks!

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- Nathan
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Breitling Avenger Skyland (Black)