Many thanks to the experts.
The more I ask question about 806/809, the more I discover fake watches on the web...
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| Author: | BreitBees [ Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Is it possible ? |
Hello guys, I recently saw several 806 and 809 with a beaded bezel and a panda dial, all of which having the twin planes logo. I have some questions: - have the twin planes and beaded bezel coexisted ? - how long have the beaded bezel and panda dial / small subdials coexisted ? - is the association between a beaded bezel and a 809 possible ? If yes, both with the wings logo and the twin planes logo ? Thanks for your answers |
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is it possible ? |
no, approx. 2 years between them, they didn’t co-exist. yes, there were beaded 809 - megarare all black, then panda, no twinplane beaded panda were made in 1963 and early 1964 |
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| Author: | Kurt B [ Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is it possible ? |
WatchFred wrote: no, approx. 2 years between them, they didn’t co-exist. yes, there were beaded 809 - megarare all black, then panda, no twinplane beaded panda were made in 1963 and early 1964 I obviously agree about beaded 63’ 809 panda, but have you ever seen a 64’ beaded 809 panda, or in other words, how can you be sure it exists?? And just for the record, I have never seen one, but then again - I haven’t seen them all. Kurt B http://www.kurt-b.com |
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| Author: | buddman [ Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is it possible ? |
I don’t understand your post Kurt. Is it to say you can’t say it doesn’t exist if youve never seen it? |
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| Author: | Kurt B [ Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is it possible ? |
buddman wrote: I don’t understand your post Kurt. Is it to say you can’t say it doesn’t exist if youve never seen it? What I’m saying, is that I have never seen one, hence in my book it doesn’t exist. But if it does actually exist, then I’d like to know, and in order to change my opinion, I’ll need proof. My knowledge has been build up on pieces I have actually seen, not on what somebody says they have seen, as there’s plenty of dreamers out there ... When I ask Fred that way, then it’s because he might have seen one, and when it comes to Fred, he’s one of the very few guys I most likely would trust if he told me that he had seen one, simply because we’re on the same mission - not hand by hand, but with the same goal. Kurt B www.kurt-b.com |
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| Author: | Kurt B [ Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is it possible ? |
buddman wrote: I don’t understand your post Kurt. Is it to say you can’t say it doesn’t exist if youve never seen it? Example.: A lot of sources says (including Breitling) that the first Navitimer came in 1952, what is your belief ?? Kurt B http://www.kurt-b.com |
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| Author: | buddman [ Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is it possible ? |
Maybe the OP can post a pic. Seems doubtful! |
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| Author: | Kurt B [ Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is it possible ? |
buddman wrote: Maybe the OP can post a pic. Seems doubtful! It is doubtful, but Fred wrote it exist, that’s the whole reason to my respond.... !! Kurt B http://www.kurt-b.com |
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is it possible ? |
Kurt B wrote: WatchFred wrote: no, approx. 2 years between them, they didn’t co-exist. yes, there were beaded 809 - megarare all black, then panda, no twinplane beaded panda were made in 1963 and early 1964 I obviously agree about beaded 63’ 809 panda, but have you ever seen a 64’ beaded 809 panda, or in other words, how can you be sure it exists?? And just for the record, I have never seen one, but then again - I haven’t seen them all. Kurt B http://www.kurt-b.com Kurt, the early 1964 case batch according to the Breitling production ledger is listed as “806&809”, this case batch has a beaded bezel. I have seen several 806 from this batch, do not specifically remember an 809, but the production ledger indicates they were produced. |
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| Author: | BreitBees [ Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is it possible ? |
Many thanks to the experts. The more I ask question about 806/809, the more I discover fake watches on the web... (
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is it possible ? |
"fake" may be a bit harsh, let's call them "modified". quite a lot happened during service, neither watchmakers nor clients cared when a faded dial, a dirty insert or hands that had lost luminescence were replaced (and cared even less if the spare part was "period correct"). the sad thing is that this is still happening - daily and with all brands..... |
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| Author: | buddman [ Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is it possible ? |
BreitBees wrote: Many thanks to the experts. The more I ask question about 806/809, the more I discover fake watches on the web... (Very few fake 806 or 809s (trying to think if I've ever seen any actually?). They are as Fred says, just horribly abused. |
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is it possible ? |
buddman wrote: BreitBees wrote: Many thanks to the experts. The more I ask question about 806/809, the more I discover fake watches on the web... (Very few fake 806 or 809s (trying to think if I've ever seen any actually?). They are as Fred says, just horribly abused. have seen some horrible fakes too, but they are almost as rare as the allblack beaded small-bezel Cossie |
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is it possible ? |
here's an example - 100% fabricated, was using Venus 152s, the guys produced several & sold them approx. 1.5 years ago 
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| Author: | Kurt B [ Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is it possible ? |
WatchFred wrote: Kurt B wrote: WatchFred wrote: no, approx. 2 years between them, they didn’t co-exist. yes, there were beaded 809 - megarare all black, then panda, no twinplane beaded panda were made in 1963 and early 1964 I obviously agree about beaded 63’ 809 panda, but have you ever seen a 64’ beaded 809 panda, or in other words, how can you be sure it exists?? And just for the record, I have never seen one, but then again - I haven’t seen them all. Kurt B http://www.kurt-b.com Kurt, the early 1964 case batch according to the Breitling production ledger is listed as “806&809”, this case batch has a beaded bezel. I have seen several 806 from this batch, do not specifically remember an 809, but the production ledger indicates they were produced. Well - I have to say that I have not seen a single beaded 64’ 806 over the period of 20 years I have collected and studied Navitimers intense - regardless of Breitlings ledgers, so until I actually see one, they don’t exist in my book. “Several” is more then 2, and I will be looking forward to the day you hopefully show me one, as that will be the day I accept that they exist. I am curious to know what the ledgers say about the first Navitimers, 52’ or 54’... !! I am not saying that I don’t have belief in Breitlings ledgers, as I will actually prefer to trust them, I just need proof to back it up. Kurt B http://www.kurt-b.com |
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