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Vintage Duograph Sold on Ebay
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Author:  Jeff Stein [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Vintage Duograph Sold on Ebay
This vintage Duograph sold on ebay, this past Saturday. I am curious whether it appears to be "correct" / authentic? For example, the serial number on the case-back is 554xxx, suggesting early 1940's, but I am told that the "B" above the Breitling name only started in the 1950's (or later). Also, this one has a solid crown / pusher, rather than the button in the crown. Would this be correct? And what about the "Swiss Made" rather than the "Swiss"?

Does this chronograph look right or has the dial been replaced? Or is the whole thing likely to have been put together?

thanks for any information,

Jeff

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Author:  Roffensian [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Watch was mentioned in this thread - http://breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6370

Is it right - well, I was going to buy it if the price had been slightly more reasonable.

It's very difficult to tell whether these are 100% correct because there is so little that we can compare against - it's not like it is a 1965 806.

The B is fine, unusual in early pieces not to have the script Breitling, but certainly documented. Swiss Made doesn't bother me too much either - it's certainly possible it's a replacement dial, but I think it's right. The crown not having the B is also OK, it's an unusual crown, and visually looks like it might be too big - and of course doesn't have a central pusher. However it does stand proud, so may well have a double function - I certainly can't say that it's wrong.
Author:  chronodeco [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Breitling Duograph
Jeff - It looks mostly like the real deal to me. However, the dial could be a refinish (hard to tell with the one pic and no references to an original). I doubt that the crown is original, I have never seen one like it for a center pusher. If someone can come up with an original dial pic, that would help a lot. Craig
Author:  chronomania [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Breitling Duograph
As for the crown, I believe that it is original. On page 173 in the book "Chronograph Wristwatches To Stop Time" from Gerd-R. Lang and Reinhard Meis. There is a 1945 Breitling (item 318) with a Venus 179 (two register Rattrapante) with the Brevet (swiss for Patent Pending) crown.

I have the same watch (case, crown, stepped bezel and Venus 185 movement) as was in the auction, however mine has a redial and is a few years newer. I too was tracking the auction, however it became a little pricey for me.


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Author:  chronomania [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
P.S. : The picture in Gerd Lang's book (page 173, item 318) has a big scripted "B" and standard font "BREITLING" below the "B."

Chronomania
Author:  chronomania [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
P.S.S.: The crown is known as a "Dual Crown Use." Reference Benno Richter's book: "Breitling The History of a Great Brand of Watches 1184 to the Present" copyright 1995 First Edition.

On Page 160 of Richter's book you can find the reference number for the model 766 Duograph: "Hand-wound, round case, square buttons, 30 minute & 12 hour counters, dual crown use"

Hope this helps.....

Chronomania
Author:  Jeff Stein [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  This is All Very Helpful
I have been studying Richter's book this evening.
    I am comfortable with the crown
    I am comfortable with the "Swiss Made"
    I am comfortable with the "B" above the Breitling
But I remain
    unsure about the marking on the bridge
    unsure about the look / vintage / style of the dial -- have we ever seen a duograph with the tachy and tele scales or this combination of markers and numerals?

So I am still puzzling over the watch. For this kind of money, it seems that the Duograph should be "no questions asked" / correct in every respect.

Thanks so much for the amazing information and opinions!!

Jeff
Author:  Jeff Stein [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Tonight, I Have Viewed Photos of 20 to 25 Duographs
tonight I have viewed photos of 20 to 25 Duographs (Richter, Christies online catalogs, various websites, etc.) . . . all had the word "Duograph" on the top half of the dial (below Breitling), and not on the bottom half of the dial, as shown on this one.

weird stuff here!!

jeff
Author:  Roffensian [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:05 am ]
Post subject: 
But don't forget - this is a very early one. With the amount of variety at the time I can't say that anything is wrong - the dial is not in 65 year old aging territory, so an older refinish is possible, but I don't think it's a redial.

In terms of the movement - Craig has ssen way more than me, and if it's good enough for him then I'm not going to argue.

I understand the uncertainty, clearly someone didn't share it because that's a very full price for this piece, but this could just as easily be a reference piece for future sales. Personally I ask myself if I would still have doubts if this were being sold through Christies or Antiquorum - although of course it is possible that they turned it down.
Author:  chronodeco [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Duograph Heaven.....
I have a reprint of a Breitling Catalog #46 (no date shown) that should be about the best source for this model and many others. It even lists the reference # in the pictures. Note that the 766 pic shows the movement with the signature on the balance bridge. Don't we all wish we had just one of these! Craig
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Author:  chronomania [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:42 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi Chronodeco:

I see that Duograph picture in Benno Richter's book on page 105 with the description: "Duograph" with sweephand function, circa 1946

For Mr Stein, I have the following picture that I had found on the internet earlier this year. I can not recall which website where I found it. It looks like a similar dial as originally posted, however, "Duograph" is just below the Breitling name instead of below the center post. The case (with stepped bezel) and dual use crown look the same. I wish that I could find a dial like it for my watch. It is truely rare to see these double-split (Rattrapante) chronographs come to market at all, especially the triple register (Venus 185). When they do, the prices are usually out of reach for many of us. Hope this helps.......

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Author:  chronomania [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:09 am ]
Post subject: 
P.S.: It is interesting in the catalogue picture that Chronodeco posted (the one with numerous Breitling chronographs lined-up in the same shot), there are chronographs with both square push buttons and round ones. Also there are dual-use crowns and button-in-crowns chronographs.
Author:  chronomania [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
P.S.S.: Also in the line of chronographs, the top one has a simple outer scale (the two register Rattrapante) where as the others have some sort of tachy scale.....Were Breitlings "made to order" back then (case, crown and dial choices intermixed)? Things that make you go hmmmm....
Author:  Roffensian [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
chronomania wrote:
P.S.S.: Also in the line of chronographs, the top one has a simple outer scale (the two register Rattrapante) where as the others have some sort of tachy scale.....Were Breitlings "made to order" back then (case, crown and dial choices intermixed)? Things that make you go hmmmm....


I think the distinct model numbers suggest that they are distinct models rather than custom made, but it does seem as though there was a degree of modularity.
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