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Breitling @ KRONOMETER STOCKHOLM
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Author:  nicolas07 [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:28 am ]
Post subject:  Breitling @ KRONOMETER STOCKHOLM
I really enjoy this partnership and would love to learn more about it so do not hesitate to add your comments ;)

Founded in 1933, Kronometer Stockholm was a pretty big Swedish retailer, until 1975.
They imported and sold watches both for professional and civilian use.

Dates are not very clear but earliest examples seen with Kronometer Stockholm signature are dating from the mid 40’s while we have also seen some early 70’s Top Time 815.

Concomitantly to the sale of co-branded Breitling, Kronometer Stockholm also sold Breitling watches under its own name.

Those watches were using same reference numbers, serial numbers and movements as their Breitling sisters but with a Kronometer Stockholm only dial.

From 1933 to the 50’s the following logo was used:

Image
Logo 1933 - 50’s

It was then replaced by this one:

Image
Logo 50’s - 1975

As for many retailers, if not all, it seems that many Breitling sold by Kronometer Stockholm were either unsold watches or later assembly of unsold case/movements with later dials.

Breitling Ref 734:

Image
Ref 734 with a case from 1945 and a post 1953 dial
Source: Auction archive

Image
Ref 734 Kronometer Stockholm only
Source: @swewatch

Breitling Ref 765 - Pre AVI:

Image
Source: @swewatch

Breitling Ref 765 - AVI:

Image
Source: @Jean Luc Desplats

Breitling Ref 786 - Chronomat:

Image

Breitling Ref 788:

Image
Ref 788 with a case from 1945 but a later Kronometer Stockholm logo
Source: Auction archive

Breitling Ref 808 - Chronomat:

Image
Source: @swewatch

Breitling Ref 2508 - Chronomat:

Image
Source: BreitlingSource

Image
Source: @swewatch

Breitling Ref 815 - Top Time:

Image
Source: auction archive

Those 815 were supplied to the Televerket company and a second serial number was stamped on the case back (most probably for internal identification through the company).
Televerket was the Swedish company (state-owned) responsible for telecommunications in Sweden between 1853 and 1993.
While initially named Kongl. Elektriska Telegraf-Werket (Royal Electric Telegraph Agency), it was renamed Televerket in 1953.

Image
Source: AnalogShift
Author:  Skidad [ Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling @ KRONOMETER STOCKHOLM
Here is one of my 734:
Attachment:
Black734.JPG
Author:  Dracha [ Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling @ KRONOMETER STOCKHOLM
Hi Nicolas
interesting article !

can you please explain how you come to the conclusion that some of them have later dials in earlier cases , and what you mean exactly ?

nicolas07 wrote:
or later assembly of unsold case/movements with later dials.


thanks
Rene
Author:  Mortys [ Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling @ KRONOMETER STOCKHOLM
Awesome article Nicolas. Great work. Thnx for sharing!


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Author:  nicolas07 [ Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling @ KRONOMETER STOCKHOLM
Dracha wrote:
Hi Nicolas
interesting article !

can you please explain how you come to the conclusion that some of them have later dials in earlier cases , and what you mean exactly ?

nicolas07 wrote:
or later assembly of unsold case/movements with later dials.


thanks
Rene

Hello René,

Actually, i was refering to cases with a mid 40's serial but fitted with mid 50's dial.
I thought Breitling produced more cases during the 40's than they made watches so they continued to use mid 40's cases for their 50's production.

Is that inexact?

Thanks

Envoyé de mon Nura 2 en utilisant Tapatalk
Author:  WatchFred [ Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling @ KRONOMETER STOCKHOLM
no, Nicolas; quite correct, but not restricted to the 1940s; we also see 1953 Co-Pilot case assembled until the late 1950s.
Author:  gin47 [ Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling @ KRONOMETER STOCKHOLM
Interesting and educative write up, thanks for sharing.
Author:  neilbardsley [ Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling @ KRONOMETER STOCKHOLM
Thank you for sharing
Author:  Dom87 [ Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling @ KRONOMETER STOCKHOLM
My Ref. 788 Kronometer Stockholm from 1946
Author:  davedc74 [ Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling @ KRONOMETER STOCKHOLM
OMG that is awesome. Bravo.
Author:  Dracha [ Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling @ KRONOMETER STOCKHOLM
nicolas07 wrote:
Hello René,

Actually, i was refering to cases with a mid 40's serial but fitted with mid 50's dial.
I thought Breitling produced more cases during the 40's than they made watches so they continued to use mid 40's cases for their 50's production.

Is that inexact?

Thanks



someone will have to convince me this is correct , and on this one I am not easily convinced
look at the sloppy 'Breitling' , height difference between the individual letters , the sloppy overall print , the placement and font of the Premier (and the overall white without any of the sunburst or other effects on the dial)

Image

https://www.ssongwatches.com/blogs/jour ... ng-ref-734

Attachment:
Screen Shot 2017-12-15 at 10.26.10.png
Author:  Dracha [ Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling @ KRONOMETER STOCKHOLM
side by side

a dial from 1953/57 and the ref 734 (which is supposedly from the mid 50ies ?)

Image

and this may not be a popular opinion but I am not even close to the fence I like to sit on
Author:  Dracha [ Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling @ KRONOMETER STOCKHOLM
Since there seem to be a bit of controversy around my post and people don’t believe me here’s a bit of extra info as to how I come to my ‘this is a reprinted dial’ conclusion
And for the record , I am not closer to the fence , if anything it convinced me more its a reprinted dial

Ok , so I am going to focus on the Breitling print first and later I will take the whole dial with KS branding in consideration \

1) I put both scripts (of a know good 1950ies 788 which seems to be an equally rare watch ) above each other and took a screen shot

Image

2) now before we go much further , look at how the ‘Geneve’ is positioned under the Breitling , and please compare yourself with hundreds of Breitling watches on the web that have ‘Breitling Gevene’ on the dial below each other

Image

this by itself should be quite convincing ?

3) so more inconsistencies

bottom of the V sudden different from all others I have seen (and please remember the 788 I used as an example is just as rare as the 734 so IMO this negates the ‘its a small production run’ differences as the 788 is spot on and consistent will all others with this particular script on the dial)

Image

4) R & G completely different

Image

5) where do all of a sudden come the very pronounced serif’s from on the ‘Geneve’ ?

Image


ok , so that is the Breitling Geneve script , lets look at the whole dial

first it was suggested that this was a virgin (blank) dial that KS had their logo printed on and that that printer then proceeded to print the breitling logo on it
I don’t agree with this hypothesis as we have seen several other KS branded watches that did not have Breitling on the dial , why would they do that with this one and not others ?
KS probably had the right to put KS on the dial , but to put Breitling on the dial as well ? , very doubtful

second , the dial is pristine white , so white in fact that there no longer is any play of light on the circles of the subdials , its like it was painted matte ? . A premier typically has a beautiful dial , full of light play on the dial as well as on the subdials , this one however doesnt

third , its a non waterproof chrono from the 40ies / 50ies , and not a single trace of moisture on the tachy ring ? , circumstantial , I know .. but still

For a printer its quite easy to find a high resolution KS logo online and make a KS litho out of that , the Breitling Geneve script however ? , not so easy , please remember that that script is the biggest giveaway for reprinted dials, they never get it quite correct , same as in this case

Now add all of this to an assumption that the watch was completed post 1953 and therefor has geneve on the dial ?

as said , I am not convinced

“Now” someone asked “would the watch be more convincing if it didn’t have the Breitling Geneve on the dial ?”

hmmmm… maybe , but only if it wasn’t that matte stark white and had some age to it . And even the Breitling watches with only the KS on the dial have that fine and beautiful dial that Breitling produced at the time , none of this matte white
Author:  Vandeg [ Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling @ KRONOMETER STOCKHOLM
That is really, really great, thanks very much. Will be very helpful to many, i am sure this will help to see many more correct vintage Breitlings here on the forum.


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Author:  Dom87 [ Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling @ KRONOMETER STOCKHOLM
Little pre-Christmas gift to myself...
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