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Rating System?
https://www.breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=51821		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  vintage [ Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:08 am ]
Post subject:  Rating System?
How about developing a rating system for vintage Breitling's we could use on the forum? Old watches could be described like old cars when it comes to originality, mechanics , and finish. Just because I have a 1957 Chevy Bel Air with a blown 454 engine doesn't mean it isn't a 1957 Chevy any longer. The same can be said for vintage Breitling's. Just because a piece may have been repaired over the years, and used regularly, doesn't mean it's still not an authentic Breitling. We tend to dismiss watches that aren't 100% original just because they aren't 100% original but there still is a market for them. Reality is nobody knows if a watch is 100% original unless they bought it new and can account for every minute of it's possession. You're basically taking someone else's word for it if you're not the original owner. It's reasonable to expect movement repairs, case wear, crown and hand replacements, and even dial repaints that were done to preserve the operability of a watch over it's lifetime. Plenty of pieces have history within families and were passed down from one generation to another and may have had many repairs and modifications to keep them useable. That history makes them no less valuable to their owner. A rating system would allow us to describe a watch without tearing it down in front of the questioner and making them believe it's problematic. Much easier to say "you have a category 1 watch" than spending time telling them what is wrong with their piece vs what's right about the piece. Just as an example:

Category 1 = Authentic and mint, no apparent modifications or repairs.

Category 2 = Authentic showing only normal light wear and patina.

Category 3 = Mostly authentic, hands, crown, or crystal may have been changed.

Category 4 = Authentic but modified, dial or case altered or refinished.

Category 5 = Authentic but needing a full restoration.

I don't see any need to have a category for fakes. Also don't see any need to assign values or depreciation percentages since it's all relative to an individual piece and model. Just throwing this out there initially to see if anyone else might think it could work.

Haven't had my coffee yet so might delete this later. :wink:
Author:  Roffensian [ Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rating System?
vintage wrote:
How about developing a rating system for vintage Breitling's we could use on the forum? Old watches could be described like old cars when it comes to originality, mechanics , and finish. Just because I have a 1957 Chevy Bel Air with a blown 454 engine doesn't mean it isn't a 1957 Chevy any longer. The same can be said for vintage Breitling's. Just because a piece may have been repaired over the years, and used regularly, doesn't mean it's still not an authentic Breitling. We tend to dismiss watches that aren't 100% original just because they aren't 100% original but there still is a market for them. Reality is nobody knows if a watch is 100% original unless they bought it new and can account for every minute of it's possession. You're basically taking someone else's word for it if you're not the original owner. It's reasonable to expect movement repairs, case wear, crown and hand replacements, and even dial repaints that were done to preserve the operability of a watch over it's lifetime. Plenty of pieces have history within families and were passed down from one generation to another and may have had many repairs and modifications to keep them useable. That history makes them no less valuable to their owner. A rating system would allow us to describe a watch without tearing it down in front of the questioner and making them believe it's problematic. Much easier to say "you have a category 1 watch" than spending time telling them what is wrong with their piece vs what's right about the piece. Just as an example:

Category 1 = Authentic and mint, no apparent modifications or repairs.

Category 2 = Authentic showing only normal light wear and patina.

Category 3 = Mostly authentic, hands, crown, or crystal may have been changed.

Category 4 = Authentic but modified, dial or case altered or refinished.

Category 5 = Authentic but needing a full restoration.

I don't see any need to have a category for fakes. Also don't see any need to assign values or depreciation percentages since it's all relative to an individual piece and model. Just throwing this out there initially to see if anyone else might think it could work.

Haven't had my coffee yet so might delete this later. :wink:



Quoting to thwart any attempt to delete later :nana: :wink:

I think that it's a great idea - need to think through the details and implications, but I think that it will help 'rookies' in understanding what type of watch they have / are looking at and whether or not they might be better off waiting for something else.

It will inevitably end up being a valuation system (in how people use it) but agree that there is no need to put numbers on it because that's subjective and a moving target.
Author:  Dracha [ Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rating System?
I like the idea a lot but would like to expand Cat. 5

Category 6 = Authentic but needing a full restoration. Parts generally available (ie can readily be found on Ebay or other sources)

Category 7 = Authentic but needing a full restoration. Parts generally unavailable (ie have not seen for sale more than once in the last few years)

We can always put a percentage on it ?

Cat 2 , 90% or something
Author:  WatchFred [ Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rating System?
sounds very good.
let's go for this. Percentages need a bit of thought but make sense.

Category 1+ = Authentic and mint, no apparent modifications or repairs; Bill agrees ;)
Author:  Supermoto [ Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rating System?
Don't think I'm ever going to get in the Cat 1 club, reminds me of the times I used to go fishing in Cornwall and I could never get into Bassnasty's 10 pounder (1 or 2) club :boohoo:

Regards Cat 2 Phil
Author:  Bill in Sacramento [ Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  The play of probabilities and possibilities.
I would add the words "probably" or "possibly" to each description, since the farther we go back in time, the less certain we can be.

And, some restorations are better than others.

Will "cool hunters" and flippers start using such categories in their sales pitches?
Author:  Novacastrian [ Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rating System?
The value of a system like this is you get a known short-hand. Saves a lot of wasted time. We can have a sticky at the top of the forum for easy reference.


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Author:  vintage [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rating System?
Novacastrian wrote:
The value of a system like this is you get a known short-hand. Saves a lot of wasted time. We can have a sticky at the top of the forum for easy reference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My point exactly. I think most of us get a little weary explaining authenticity, condition issues, and such over and over. It won't stop follow on questions wanting exact explanations of what is incorrect but should minimize some of the repetition. Perhaps in the forum sticky we could head off some of that with a side bar explaining each condition a little more fully and perhaps a picture of an example would be of benefit.

Thinking a little more about this after I initially posted yesterday, an impact percentage might work. Like a Category 2 would have 10% less value than a Category 1, Category 3 25% less value (actual percentages to be discussed later), etc, etc, therefore avoiding monetary values which would be based upon model, scarcity, and popularity. Would probably still need to add a category for fakes/frankens otherwise an explanation each time one showed up would be required. Subsequent follow up questions as to why a watch is a fake or franken will still most likely occur.
Author:  Roffensian [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rating System?
With modern fakes most of the people who come here know that they have a fake, they just want to see how hard it is to spot - hence a very quick one or two word response sends them away. With vintage it's different, many people come here just not knowing, or (if they have already bought) trying to convince themselves that it might be real so explanations will always be needed. Add to that the fact that not all 'fakes' are created equal - there are the complete fabrications but then there are also franken pieces that may well have genuine elements to them and as a result still have some value as parts pieces.

I don't think that any of us will mind providing those explanations, but none of those watches should be part of a rating system for genuine pieces because we need to create a distinction between real and not real.

Just my 0.02.
Author:  kahless [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rating System?
I really like this idea. Images of what a category 1, 2, 3, etc watch look like might help newbies (such as myself) a lot as well. I'm not sure if the more established vintage collectors have images for each category of the watches that come up most frequently, but I know what I struggle with when looking at eBay is spotting the little things that make it a fake or retouched. As they say a picture is worth a thousand words.
Author:  rick [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rating System?
Rating categories makes great sense!! As stated earlier they have to be easily accessible to all, even novices so they can be readily compared. Such a great idea. I am sure this will be adopted as a standard in other watch forums.

GO FOR IT!!
Author:  natesen [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rating System?
I really like this idea. That would be a wonderfully helpful tool for someone like myself who doesn't know much about vintage watches, but I absolutely love their look and appreciate their beauty and significance. I think its tough to break into the vintage world so the system is a great idea for those of us with little vintage knowledge. I typically just like to enjoy all the pics you guys post, but figured I'd throw in my 2 cents as a someone who doesn't have any vintage watches.....at least not yet :)

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Author:  Tim S [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rating System?
natesen wrote:
I really like this idea. That would be a wonderfully helpful tool for someone like myself who doesn't know much about vintage watches, but I absolutely love their look and appreciate their beauty and significance. I think its tough to break into the vintage world so the system is a great idea for those of us with little vintage knowledge. I typically just like to enjoy all the pics you guys post, but figured I'd throw in my 2 cents as a someone who doesn't have any vintage watches.....at least not yet :)

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

I couldn't agree more. I think it's a great idea!
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