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More Info on 60's/70's Cal.12 Chrono-matic?
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Author:  steve.austin [ Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:06 am ]
Post subject:  More Info on 60's/70's Cal.12 Chrono-matic?
Hi everyone.

New to this forum. I have a very interesting (to me) example of a late 60's to early 70's Chrono-matic with the Caliber 12 movement. Just got it back after having it restored (a nine-month wait!). Pictures shown are of watch prior to restoration:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3274/287 ... 2671_o.jpg

Wondered if any of you can provide me with any information on it, as I have never seen another example of one with this same dial. Oddly enough, I saw an Elgin for sale on eBay a while back that had the same dial (but not the same rotating bezel), and I saved a pic of it: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3268/287 ... 4cc0_o.jpg

Any help is greatly appreciated - thanks!
Author:  Roffensian [ Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More Info on 60's/70's Cal.12 Chrono-matic?
steve.austin wrote:
Hi everyone.

New to this forum. I have a very interesting (to me) example of a late 60's to early 70's Chrono-matic with the Caliber 12 movement. Just got it back after having it restored (a nine-month wait!). Pictures shown are of watch prior to restoration:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3274/287 ... 2671_o.jpg

Wondered if any of you can provide me with any information on it, as I have never seen another example of one with this same dial. Oddly enough, I saw an Elgin for sale on eBay a while back that had the same dial (but not the same rotating bezel), and I saved a pic of it: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3268/287 ... 4cc0_o.jpg

Any help is greatly appreciated - thanks!


Well, I'm not sure I can add much to what you already know.

There were a number of slightly unusual Chrono-matics in the 70s, which is when I think this one likely dates to (Chrono-matic was introduced in 1969), although I've never seen this one before. It's essentially a regular Chrono-matic layout (30 minute / 12 hour with date at 6) with just the unusual design to the subdials, and of course the countdown bezel.

Do you have a model or serial number?
Author:  steve.austin [ Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Elgin connection?
Thanks Roffensian.

No model or serial # info, as it was evidently subjected to a refinishing of the case back, and all that is left is the SWISS MADE-SHOCK RESISTANT-ALL STAINLESS STEEL-WATER RESISTANT engraving around the perimeter. The guy who did the restoration for me confirmed its authenticity as a Breitling, but I guess no assurances it isn't some kind of Frankenwatch.

You'd probably give me a hard time if I told you what I spent on it, and then spent to have it restored on top of that, but I love the way it looks and appreciate its rarity, and imagine I'll be keeping it for good, even if it might have lost its collectible value along the way.

What do you make of the Elgin connection?

Appreciate your feedback :)
Author:  Roffensian [ Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elgin connection?
steve.austin wrote:

What do you make of the Elgin connection?


I don't know anything about Elgin, so can't really comment on it specifically. I am not aware of any connection between Breitling and Elgin, so the cynic in me is going to have to say that one of them is a frankenwatch.

I can't say from the photos that the Breitling is wrong, and you have obviously had it validated as part of the restoration process, so no reason to think that the Breitling is wrong.

Obviously the traditional US connection to Breitling is Wakmann, but maybe there wa some kind of design collaboration around these, or maybe the Elgin is wrong. Alternately, maybe some of the parts from the 1978 bankruptcy made their way to Elgin - I just don't know - sorry.
Author:  vintage [ Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elgin connection?
Roffensian wrote:
steve.austin wrote:

What do you make of the Elgin connection?


Obviously the traditional US connection to Breitling is Wakmann, but maybe there wa some kind of design collaboration around these, or maybe the Elgin is wrong. Alternately, maybe some of the parts from the 1978 bankruptcy made their way to Elgin - I just don't know - sorry.


Afraid no connection with Breitling and Elgin. This is a pure Frankenwatch, a combination of different models and pieces. Actually I'm sorry to say it's one of the worst examples I've seen in some time. Having owned the proper Elgin version and also a similar Gruen version, I can say this isn't anything ever produced by Breitling. The case and bezel look strikingly similar to a Heuer, which also used the same movement on some models. The dial is a redone Elgin probably. If it says something like JRWK on the movement bridge it's definitely not a Breitling or Heuer and could be many different Cal 11/12 models. Even the Elgin and Gruen said Elgin or Gruen on the movement. Other generic cal 11/12 models like Kelek and a few others used the JRWK (or something similar). And, you don't see Chrono-matic anywhere on the watch do you? Sorry to bring bad news.

Paul
Author:  steve.austin [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Pic of the movement
Here's a pic of the movement.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3123/288 ... 43a1_o.jpg
Thanks for the feedback. With the number of variations that were reportedly available back then, can it really be said with absolute certainty that it is not a Breitling?
[img]
Author:  vintage [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pic of the movement
steve.austin wrote:
Here's a pic of the movement.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3123/288 ... 43a1_o.jpg
Thanks for the feedback. With the number of variations that were reportedly available back then, can it really be said with absolute certainty that it is not a Breitling?
[img]


Show us a pic of the back of the case, both inside and out. If you look at that bridge on the movement where it says BREITLING, doesn't it look like it's been worked on and appears darker? My guess is someone ground down the original name and had the BREITLING put on it. They wouldn't go to the trouble to redo the dial and not do the movement too. In any case, I'd be very suprised if it has a Breitling reference number on the case back which it should for a circa 1970 watch. I'm about 99.9% sure it's a recreation. Enlighten us to where it was acquired from. Hopefully not anywhere in South America, Turkey, or Italy.

Paul
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