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Thoughts on a couple vintage navitimers.....
https://www.breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=48793		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  ReTTo [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Thoughts on a couple vintage navitimers.....
So I've been interested in one of these for a while, and am trying to learn what I can but I'm getting confused on red vs black date wheels, right or left sundial orange hands, white hour & minute hands.... Just when I think I know what is correct one thing seems off. Do these both look like legit 1806 chronomatic's?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUTHENTIC-VINTAGE-MENS-SWISS-BREITLING-NAVITIMER-CHRONOGRAPH-AUTOMATIC-1806-/290949652871?ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:3160

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171081831896?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

The first has obviously had the bezel redone, but the case back looks almost unworn too....

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks.
ReTTo
Author:  Waynepjr1 [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts on a couple vintage navitimers.....
Well, no comments so I will step up. I will just say this.
1. I personally do not buy anything from below Texas, period.
2. I personally do not look twice at any watch that does not show images of the movement, period.

Wayne
Author:  vintage [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts on a couple vintage navitimers.....
That first watch is a nice example. There is so very little wear on it I tend to think the bezel might be original. The serial number does date to 1968 and would be correct with the black date. This one might bring a very respectable price.
Author:  Roffensian [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts on a couple vintage navitimers.....
First one does look very nice. Second one looked OK until I zoomed in on the dial - looks like a fairly accurate but low quality redial.
Author:  cal_11 [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AW: Thoughts on a couple vintage navitimers.....
Both watches are obviously early birds. Black bezel, black date and these type of hands are correct for these early chrono-matics. They have to have a cal 11 inside and a serial number from 1968 or early 1969 (my opinion and experience).

First one: Nice, but the bezel is definitely refinished, because the edges are now round polished. Why is the seller writing about 1970?

Second one: Seems to be OK.

You should ask about the serial numbers and a picture from the back.
Author:  ReTTo [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts on a couple vintage navitimers.....
Thanks for the replies thus far..... I also found it confusing that the first one said:
"High precision grade, Swiss Breitling caliber 12 automatic movement, recently cleaned, running strong, keeping excellent time"

I thought cal 11 too....
Author:  Roffensian [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts on a couple vintage navitimers.....
Calibre 12 is simply an updated calibre 11 that came out in late '69. Serial number would let us know for sure (or a photo of the movement).
Author:  vintage [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts on a couple vintage navitimers.....
The bezel on the first one doesn't look polished what so ever to me. Later bezel had the edges polished to stop the normal wear experienced by the earlier versions. The Cal 12 would have been a normal replacement movement after the Cal 11 was discontinued. It's actually a better movement. Only hope that it has Breitling on the movement bridge if that's the case. Still an authentic piece though. Seller indicates "100% authentic" so if it isn't you can always send it back.
Author:  P51 [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts on a couple vintage navitimers.....
Keep in mind that both of these do not have boxes or papers by the looks of it. Not an issue for me, but you may be different. Apart from that they seem faily nice examples.
Author:  Roffensian [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts on a couple vintage navitimers.....
P51 wrote:
Keep in mind that both of these do not have boxes or papers by the looks of it. Not an issue for me, but you may be different. Apart from that they seem faily nice examples.



Not many 1806s with boxes and papers!
Author:  Waynepjr1 [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts on a couple vintage navitimers.....
Glad the guys hooked you up with the info Retto. I word from a former Postal Employee about purchases from foreign countries. As far as South America, Mexico and Central America you are taking risk when buying anything online from these countries getting to you here in the US or anything of value for that matter. It is unfortunate but corruption in the mailing services of just about all couriers is commonplace and there is really no recourse. Even when mailing registered mail, the most secure form we offer, all bets are off once they are handed over to foreign mail services. USPS has no jurisdiction within foreign postal services. You get away fine 10 times but the 11th doesn't.......
As far as EU, most countries are fine with exception of Italy and former Eastern Block. I have seen some beautiful Cartier and Patek arrive in the US with no movements. But for the most part EU is fine.
As far as the US watch, I don't like to comment on a watch unless I can see everything. Just me.
Author:  WatchFred [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts on a couple vintage navitimers.....
the first 1806 is one of the best preserved examples I have ever seen.

If that bezel ring is refinished, I'd love to know who did the work - remember that the caseback engravings on the big case models fade very, very easily - this is in extremely crisp condition, showing that that watch was very rarely worn, so bezel and dial condition are in line with this.
excellent, though I would have liked to see a movement shot too.

Jim, maybe one in 200 vintage Breitlings come with their original box and papers, hell probably much less. And then the watch has to be correct and affordable. Are you sure you know you are commenting in the vintage section ?
Author:  P51 [ Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts on a couple vintage navitimers.....
WatchFred wrote:
Jim, maybe one in 200 vintage Breitlings come with their original box and papers, hell probably much less. And then the watch has to be correct and affordable. Are you sure you know you are commenting in the vintage section ?


Hi Fred, yes I realise that. I don't expect to see them, but others may feel unsure on bidding if they thought the associated papers shoud be there. Its self evident but sometimes worth pointing that out. If the price goes where I think it might, that may become a factor. My lips are sealed. Correct, the watch would not be as affordable if they were provided. :wink:
Author:  Bullfrog [ Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts on a couple vintage navitimers.....
P51 wrote:
WatchFred wrote:
Jim, maybe one in 200 vintage Breitlings come with their original box and papers, hell probably much less. And then the watch has to be correct and affordable. Are you sure you know you are commenting in the vintage section ?


Hi Fred, yes I realise that. I don't expect to see them, but others may feel unsure on bidding if they thought the associated papers shoud be there. Its self evident but sometimes worth pointing that out. If the price goes where I think it might, that may become a factor. My lips are sealed. Correct, the watch would not be as affordable if they were provided. :wink:


Vintage Breitling's in their original boxes are increasingly rare. I have recently sold 3 B's with their boxes on eBay and on 2 occasions I had separate offers for the box. I was disinclined to separate them, because I think it's wrong, but boxes when they come up for sale vary massively in price and if someone is chasing your box, it's tempting because you have a willing buyer - especially if you end up selling the set to a dealer who splits them anyway !!!

The first one of these Chrono-matics went for $2,250 BTW - considering it's the best quality I have seen for a very long time, it was a great price. It was bought by a well known dealer, no doubt we will see it re advertised shortly with scanner photos, for considerably more !!

Graham
Author:  WatchFred [ Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts on a couple vintage navitimers.....
thanks for that, Graham.
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