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hard to sell vintage watches
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Author:  paca [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  hard to sell vintage watches
Hello,

Am I the only one having a hard time selling (vintage) watches recently?

As I wanted to streamline my collection, I tryed selling 2 of my vintage watches.
I find out that it is harder than expected. I got responses but they didn't want to pay my prices.

Seems to me that people are not willing to pay a price like they (and I ) did 1 or 2 years ago. When looking around I saw that the prices are dropping in general for used watches here in Belgium.

So, is this the same in other places or not?

Just curious.
Author:  Dracha [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: hard to sell vintage watches
paca wrote:
I got responses but they didn't want to pay my prices.


maybe you're asking too much or they're not top quality ? or selling in the wrong places or just impatient ?

paca wrote:
Seems to me that people are not willing to pay a price like they (and I ) did 1 or 2 years ago.


might have something to do with less spending power due to financial uncertainties ?

but someone here had a perfect signature , something is worth what the richest man on the planet is willing to pay for it
Author:  Roffensian [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: hard to sell vintage watches
I don't sell, but from a purchasing standpoint I can't say that I have noticed much change. There are bargains out there same as ever, though fewer than a few years ago. The right piece, presented well, in the right place and at the right price will sell.
Author:  dempsey [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: hard to sell vintage watches
If the watches you are selling are anything like some of your watches you have posted in this forum, there should be a market.

It's all in the details and markets you are advertising in. Here's my experience, I was recently in San Diego CA. I explored every pawn shop, watch repair store, used and antique shop or any place that I may find a good deal or that one in a life time watch (didn't have to be a Breitling but would be top on my list). I checked out local online sales. I found Omega James Bond Seamaster, many Rolex sub and even a reasonable priced red Sub, Patek world time, Breitling Avenger and more. Although in the used market or vintage watches I look for how complete and undamaged the watch is. Then my ideal of value is my next consideration. If I think everything is in order and the price is what I'm willing to spend on the watch; I get it. If not, then I walk away and keep looking.

So what I'm trying to say is perhaps you should look at the condition of the watch and if you are pricing it fairly for the market you are selling it in? If there is an interest in that model then price it accordingly. Be willing to ride out any short sale but know when you get a fair offer. You have put a value on the item you are selling so you just need to advertise in the right market. You just may find the buyer looking for you.

I also think where you are may not be the best time to get top dollar.

Although I would have loved to pick up the reasonable priced red Sub, it was more than I was willing to pay for it. I ended up with an Omega because of the price (first) and condition (second). Maybe if I had found you, I may have bought a different watch. Good luck.
Author:  rick [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hard to sell vintage watches
Remember { EVERY ONE WANTS TO BY LOW AND SELL HIGH!} It's human nature but there is a realistic medium point at which everyone is happy, it just takes time.
Author:  vintage [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hard to sell vintage watches
The vintage market does fluctuate. The popular watches like the Chronomat 769 and Navitimer 806 are rocks and will always bring top dollar. Rarer pieces like the Superocean 2005, AVI 765, and Copliot 765 will continue to appreciate. Can't generally lose with any 18k gold watch. Chronographs are the easiest to sell but the more common versions still haven't gained a lot of popularity yet. Most of the vintage watches are smaller which is against current styling trends so the market is limited to those that specifically collect them versus someone that will wear them. A good, clean, authentic, and fully functional vintage watch will still sell if priced competitivly. The only slow down I've seen is in the middle years from around 1980-1995 especially with the quartz watches. Now's a good time to pick those up for a good price. The number one problem with the vintage market is the number of fakes out there which makes buyers leary of the market. Got to know what you're looking at. :)
Author:  WatchFred [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hard to sell vintage watches
we really have very, very little information about your sale attempts to comment; model, age, condition, originality and asking prices are unknown, as is the quality of your sales listing, so how should we say something relevant ?

If we are talking vintage Breitling, I am watching the market quite closely and actually think that prices have been stable on the 806/809 (rice beads in a rough range of 3k to 4k for V178s (5k for perfect examples), 8k+ for V72s; 2k to 3k for pandas) and AVI/Co-Pilots (3.5 to 4.5k, 7+ for the "digital") - the Chronomat 769s have risen quite a bit lately, with nice SS pieces selling well above 2k, sometimes 2.5k and more. The most relevant rise seems to be on the Top Time 810s (and lately also LP 815s), those used to sell around/below 1.5k, some nice 810s went above 2.5k recently; saw some 18k Premiers from the 40s sell close to 3k.

So a nice watch, with an honest description and GOOD PICTURES! will sell at a decent price, you just need a little patience.
Author:  paca [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hard to sell vintage watches
OK, thanks for the information, now it is my turn to give information.
I tried selling a vintage Breitling Chronomat 769.

Keep in mind that I am reluctant to sell on long distances, I prefer to deal in person and I am aware that this is limiting my market.

I looked around for an idea of the prices, went to 2 watch dealers for a price. They tryed to buy it for less then 1000€, telling me a Chronomat is always automatic (really?, a pre 1944 chrono automatic, you just have to try better mister), or the hands should not be like this on a chronomat (nope, Breitling used at least 2 different types) and finaly that it is a really common watch. I asked one of them to open the case so I could take pictures of the movement, found the serial number.
It is a pre 1944, I learned from the net and also here that it is normal that there was no serial number on the back (it is on the inside), the signed B crown came later and that the movement is not always signed by Breitling.

First I put the watch on sale on a watch forum (Horlogeforum.nl), a Dutch site with watch entousiastics from Belgium and the Netherlands, so I could conversate in my own language, and do a face to face deal.
I explained the condition, that I send it for a serviceat Breitling in Belgium some 16 years ago and that they replaced the hour and minute hands + cleaned it all up.
I also have the manual.

I stated that the watch works, but needs a service as it runs about 28 seconds late/day, the plexy has a few scratches and the pushers need attention.

I asked 1900 euro, didn't get a reply so lowered my price eventually to 1550 €.
One guy wanted to buy, he wanted an inspection, I agreed, I made an appointement at a watch atelier, but than he stopped the deal just before I went to the atelier, he said he would come at my house and pay for the watch, but never showed up.

Later I put the watch for sale on 2 Belgium sites but got only offers that are below my price.

So, is 1550 € to much for this watch?
Yes, I put it on sale on a watch site, so it should attract watch entousiasts.
Since I tryed to sell, the other Chronomats went also down in price.

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Author:  Roffensian [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hard to sell vintage watches
Well the following are sweeping generalisations so take them for what they may be worth, but.....

1. Local deal definitely limits the market
2. Dutch and Belgian sites probably have limited interest in the piece, especially if general watch forums rather than vintage - we have almost 15,000 members and probably no more than 50 people that visit the vintage area with any regularity. For many members here vintage holds zero appeal
3. Pieces will always sell more easily with shots including movement and inside / outside of caseback - without them you will lose potential buyers and / or sell for less
4. The absence of service will put some people off, but personally I don't think that you get your money back on a simple service (restoration may be different), it just may sell a little quicker
5. Dealers will always talk down a watch that they are being offered and offer well below private market rates

Can't really comment on European prices as I am not in Europe, but others will.
Author:  paca [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hard to sell vintage watches
Thank you for your advice, it makes a lot of sense to me.

I did put pics of the movement and the case number in my adds because I would not buy a watch without them either.

I don't think a service on the watch will pay back, it might sell better yes, but not at a higher price (the price for the service). Just a risk I should consider.

As I said, I do not like selling or buying on long distances, when I buy I Always try to pick it up at the seller or let them collect it here. This makes it more difficult to find a buyer, yes I know.

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Author:  Dracha [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: hard to sell vintage watches
you tried to sell in Belgium and The Netherlands !

From my experience , and I am from NL, there are very few (less than a handfull) vintage breitling collectors in NL/BE
People just wont pay >1500 euro's for a vintage watch in NL/BE , unless its one of the 765/806/809 ones

your best and probably only bet is Ebay and if you're lucky you might get close to the $2K that Fred mentioned. Personally I doubt you will get close to that $2K due to the repainted hands . I also didnt contact you through the forum as you were (IMO) asking too much
Author:  paca [ Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hard to sell vintage watches
@ Dracha

Yes those hands, Breitling replaced them during the service I mentioned. I think they put new ones on my watch, not repainted them, or else they did a really nice job because they are niceley blued. At that time I didn't know better and liked it, now I would tell them to give back the old ones if they should replace them.

I think I just hold to the watch for a time, it is not that it must go.

I hope in time more people will apreciate this collector. :wink:
Author:  WatchFred [ Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hard to sell vintage watches
afraid hands are really new, not relumed - and they are wrong, quite a bit too short.

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Author:  paca [ Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hard to sell vintage watches
Damned, I think you are right.
I did not noticed that before. They really looked alike, just a bit shorter.

I'm starting to wonder if the Breitling retailer send it over to Breitling or gave it to a local repair man.
Author:  WatchFred [ Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hard to sell vintage watches
afraid it was Breitling - we have seen worse, much worse replacement hands mounted during a "restoration" by Breitling Switzerland, I shudder when I remember that SuperOcean 1004 ......
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