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| How do you date a Cosmanaute? https://www.breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=45167 |
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| Author: | eelpie [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | How do you date a Cosmanaute? |
Other than by buying him borscht, that is . . . I picked this up today, and it seems to be complete and operating properly, although running a bit slow.  I think it's a cool old piece, if for no other reason than the 24 hour dial.  The serial number, difficult to read in the photo, is 1305xxx. I would like to learn as much as I can before it goes off to my Rolex dealer for a service . . . Thanks in advance. |
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| Author: | jlee5050 [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you date a Cosmanaute? |
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31437 looks like full serial is 1305593. |
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| Author: | P51 [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you date a Cosmanaute? |
Nice. Errors and omissions accepted by my information resource, your model serial number translates to a 1969 build. The model number is 809 / 3 and is most likely fitted with a Venus 178 calibre movement, manual wind in 24 hour form. The face looks like it has been refinished and the hands appear to be the correct style but too fresh for original. So are probably replacements. My version is an O & W Aviation and comes from the same era. The movement in this model is a Valoux 7736/24, so it is different to the 809 but has the same dial layout as yours. My version has beads of rice on the bezel which is different to your version but essentially the same watch. Anyone want to correct me or add value to this. Jim 
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you date a Cosmanaute? |
Your O&W is rather later than 1969. jlee5050 posted the link to the serial number tables showing that this is a '69. |
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| Author: | P51 [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you date a Cosmanaute? |
Hi Roff, Well spotted. Sorry, I was not trying to say mine was a 1969 model.  You are correct, the O & W version is much later. I understand that Albert Wajs bought up the rights & stock for the 806 & 809 from Breitling in 1978, or there abouts. He was releasing about 300 a year of his own Aviation versions in either 12 hour or 24 hour formats and some in 18k gold. I can’t tell (don’t know more likely) how much of my version is original stock components and how much was manufactured more recently. I beieve he also bought the manufacturing base for the two watches as well. I bought this one in 2007 from the Australian agent, and was absolutely delighted when I opened the box. Although in stainless, there is a definite feel of something a bit special about it.  The movement has caused a bit of comment with watchmakers I know, here in Australia. It’s not one used by Breitling, I think, and it’s not seen that regularly here, or so I am told. As always, I will stand corrected if that is not the case. In your extensive knowledge, do you know of any other watches that use the 7736/24? I'd be interested in knowing that, as I remain curious.  Jim |
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you date a Cosmanaute? |
Jim, good of you to post that clarification, was just writing a short summary of the "fire sale" of the Navitimer and Cosmonaute components when u posted this, it might have been slightly misleading for some collectors looking for more information - and missing a decade. We should add that these components and manufacturing rights were split between O&W Ollech & Wajs and Sinn (as far as I know no manufacturing lines were included in the sale, these apparently went to Rolex?); the sale did include some components for the Chronomat 808; the rights to the model names were sold to Schneider/Sicura. re the Valjoux V7736 - Breitling did use that movement in branded Navitimer 806s (branded 806E) and Cosmonautes, starting in the early 70s, no real surprise here. |
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| Author: | saabreit [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you date a Cosmanaute? |
Some complements : A Wajs told me that he started in issuing his first Aviation 24h btw 1981 and 1983, with Breitling bezel as used on late Navi's 806 and 7806 . Aviation beads of rice bezel version went a decade further when original B parts were shorted. Wajs ordered his parts more often to ex B subcontractors . Due to pre cnc machining dispersions, those parts are not strictly retrofitable to B models . O&W had got the right to assemble watches from Breitling WIP and basic parts stock , provided that no visible Breitling marks remains on their watches . They used neutral crowns, brushed to bare casebacks, reprinted dials. Inside the watches - some of the chrono bridges were erased but not systematically . Navi's and Cosmonaute versions using 7736 were identified first as 806-36 and 809-36 ( 1967 or 68?) and further as 806-E and 809-E ( 1970) , both corresponding to V178 supply shortage. |
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| Author: | P51 [ Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you date a Cosmanaute? |
Ahh, that’s interesting. Thanks guys. That changes my understanding on things. I had believed Helmut Sinn took only the rights to the names, Navitimer and Cosmonaute. So much scuttlebutt going round, it’s hard to know whats what. The internet is a wonderful and dangerous place. Thank goodness we have knowledgeable members here. Think that with the knowledge of members at the Source, collectively we could all contribute to a precise Worldwide Navitimer catalogues raisonnés. That would be a thing, but someone has probably already done it! Anyway, hope this helps eelpie with his 809. Jim |
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| Author: | eelpie [ Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do you date a Cosmanaute? |
P51 wrote: Anyway, hope this helps eelpie with his 809. Jim This thread has answered my initial question, and provided more information than I would have imagined. To be perfectly honest, I spend more time with Omegas and Rolexes because they're easier for me to get a handle on; if someone offers me a 16710 or a Speedy 'Moon' sight-unseen, I have at least some idea what we're talking about. The permutations of Breitling models, and the cross-pollination with other manufacturers can be a little daunting. I will service the 809 and probably move it along, preferring to find a more modern digital / analog Breitling as a keeper . . . Thanks to all for their contributions. |
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