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| Breitling Cadette Chronograph, ref. 1188, 1951 https://www.breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=38857 |
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Breitling Cadette Chronograph, ref. 1188, 1951 |
A seller out of Erewan, Armenia, has listed an interesting 1188 that I wanted to document: http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-AUTHENT ... 41647e2b70 As these plated pieces do not withstand the elements as well as the higher end Premiers, many we see are quite questionable; this one really seems well preserved and shows - to me - no signs of tampering. Markings on the movement and the back cover engravings makes me question some of the assumptions I made ?      
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| Author: | Dracha [ Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling Cadette Chronograph, ref. 1188, 1951 |
dial , case , hands and crown look good "Breitling" on the back and on the bridge seem very 'fresh' considering the ref , serial and 'stainless steel' engravings seem worn more ? |
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling Cadette Chronograph, ref. 1188, 1951 |
a master engraver in Erewan ? it is definitely strange, Rene; especially the combination of script and capitals, but the engraving looks a bit too good not to be authentic ? and especially, cui bono ? case, hands and dial are clearly authentic, why add to it ? |
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| Author: | Dracha [ Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling Cadette Chronograph, ref. 1188, 1951 |
to add 'authenticity' ? Most people dont trust non engraved watchbacks and movements , so he may have added those to increase sales value ? but we did see a case not too long ago in the Ferarri thread with the same script on an empty case , I just dont know enough and havent seen enough to say 'yes' or 'no' |
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling Cadette Chronograph, ref. 1188, 1951 |
edited my previous post while you were answering it, so my question to you in a seperate post now, Rene: "enlarged the caseback pic; Rene, you are our expert, is the script logo stamped or engraved ? on a close look it does look like stamping to me ?" |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling Cadette Chronograph, ref. 1188, 1951 |
I don't believe that the caseback engraving is real - agreed that it looks good quality, but that's not the same as looking right. |
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| Author: | Dracha [ Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling Cadette Chronograph, ref. 1188, 1951 |
WatchFred wrote: Rene, you are our expert, is the script logo stamped or engraved ? thats putting a lot of trust in me ! pfew.. look at it from the other way around all other caseback marking have a consistent wear pattern and smoothened edges by wear , except the 'Breitling' stamp , that looks likes its fresh out of the factory disclaimer : I have been known to make mistakes in the past !! p.s. it looks stamped to me as well |
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| Author: | vintage [ Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling Cadette Chronograph, ref. 1188, 1951 |
I think there were variations during the 1188 production cycle. Not all models are marked Cadette and there are different backs available over the years. I've seen too many of these script backs to think they were all done later especially with this quality. |
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling Cadette Chronograph, ref. 1188, 1951 |
ok, if it is stamped (and I really think it is) we are talking about an investment far larger than the asking price for this particular watch; not many people can do such a high quality stamp, they are definitely not readily available, none of our faker friends from China or South America have anything like this. So, either there IS a master engraver in Erewan who decided to mass produce vintage Breitlings and we will see dozens of these, or we might have pushed the envelope of (non-)knowledge a little further. Rene, you were the one that taught me to see the differences between engravings and stamping w/ your posts about that MIL piece, who should I call the expert here ? Disclaimer: Have been wrong many times and just trying to learn here, actually love to be proven wrong, assumptions tend to become quite a dangerous type of self delusion. |
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| Author: | DHopper71 [ Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling Cadette Chronograph, ref. 1188, 1951 |
Now, I am a total noob in authenticity verification, but looking at it from an outside viewpoint, I could certainly see it as ok. I looked at this several ways and several times(trying to learn so I don't have to ask so many questions all the time). It definitely looks stamped. I actually think the wear is consistent with the wear on the serial number. If you look close it also looks to have been stamped at a slight angle; top deeper than bottom, giving the lower edge a bit of a rolled look. That too carries over to the serial number which looks to be deeper at the top of the numbers. Looking at the image blown up, there looks to be wear on that bottom rolled part of the script, especially seen around the tail of the g. Again, I have no clue on authenticity. But looking at it, I would think they were stamped at the same time. If anything, the "stainless steel back" script looks added as an afterthought. I'm really looking forward to how this plays out in the long run. To me this is a wonderful way to learn. |
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling Cadette Chronograph, ref. 1188, 1951 |
another 1188, this one in 18k, early 1950, Italy: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... true&rt=nc many similarities, though script logo on this dial (B strange?), script on back, capitals on movement-    
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| Author: | Dracha [ Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling Cadette Chronograph, ref. 1188, 1951 |
WatchFred wrote: another 1188, this one in 18k, early 1950, Italy: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... true&rt=nc many similarities, though script logo on this dial (B strange?), script on back, capitals on movement- Whats your opinion on the 'swiss made' on the dial of the 18K gold piece ? I dont doubt the watch itself but there seems to be (some or a lot?) of restoring done to it |
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling Cadette Chronograph, ref. 1188, 1951 |
"swiss made" definitely added (and much too high for these, it should be barely visible close to the dial edge) quite a bit done to it, but basically authentic, I think |
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| Author: | saabreit [ Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling Cadette Chronograph, ref. 1188, 1951 |
IMHO it is not very difficult nowadays to machine a stamping tool : from a good quality pic or scan you digitalize the marking , then you reduce it and generate a .stp file ( Catia standard format) usable on all modern CNC machines . Either you machine a stamp , or you directly engrave the part . On ebay there is a seller from Italy who sells quite bad "NOS" dials and engraved chrono bridges . On the steel Cadette back, I do not feel the Breitling italics as it is too perfect and fresh compared to other inscriptions . If all the other mentions are stamped, it is not rational to have the Breitling engraved - and if it is stamped, it has to be aged as other stamped.More, they are some variations in the width of the letters , too perfect for a normal "serial" manufacturing process dated of the 40's or 50's. All that looks as a willness to get "overauthenticity"... " detailing" a good piece is simply stupid as it produces exactly the opposite result! |
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| Author: | Dracha [ Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling Cadette Chronograph, ref. 1188, 1951 |
saabreit wrote: " detailing" a good piece is simply stupid as it produces exactly the opposite result! Agreed , but it takes quite a knowledgeable collector to know and see that ! most buyers just see a nice watch |
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