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Bridge engravings on pre-1950ies
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Author:  Dracha [ Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Bridge engravings on pre-1950ies
Does anyone know when Breitling started with bridge engravings and which font's they used in which years ?
I just heard that Chronodecco received 2pcs Datora 784's, one in SS from myself from 1944 and one in 18K from another forum member, and Craig confirmed neither one had (as was to be expected) a bridge engraving

So can I conclude that at least '44 did not have a bridge engraving ? , or only some ?
can we start building a list which pieces should have which engravings if any ?
Author:  saabreit [ Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge engravings on pre-1950ies
Neutral bridge on the Venus 175 of my Chronomat 769 SN 508437 !
Author:  Roffensian [ Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge engravings on pre-1950ies
I've seen quite a bit of genuine engraving on 1945s, but I don't think that it's that black and white. I have seen unengraved later ones that appear to be original and I suspect that there was a fairly wide transition period.
Author:  Dracha [ Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge engravings on pre-1950ies
so no clear cutoff it seems, maybe some references with and others without engraving ?
I never focused much on the pre-50ies pieces so I am completely new in that area !
Author:  WatchFred [ Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge engravings on pre-1950ies
I will go through my 40s pieces during the next days and document the bridge engravings (or non-engravings). But as Rene wrote, Craig, who has probably seen more 40s movements than all of us combined thinks there seems no absolute answer here. My impression is that more of the 18ks are marked from the mid 40s onwards, some including the Premier branding.
Author:  WatchFred [ Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge engravings on pre-1950ies
ok, a quick list of 40s/pre40s Breitling chronographs below.
no idea whether this is a relevant sample, but no signed bridges on pre 44 pieces, 45 and onwards the 18k bridges are signed, the SS still blank.

Ref.760 18k pre44 495*** Venus175 unsigned
Ref.734 SS pre44 523*** Venus178 unsigned
Ref.769 SS pre44 527*** Venus175 unsigned
Ref.176 SS pre44 545*** Venus170 unsigned
Ref.176 SS pre44 545*** Venus170 unsigned
Ref.760 18k pre44 545*** Venus175 unsigned
Ref.769 18k 1945 591*** Venus175 signed Breitling
Ref.734 SS 1945 597*** Venus178 unsigned
Ref.784 18k 1945 606*** Valjoux23c unsigned
Ref.777 18k 1946 649*** Venus175 signed Breitling
Ref.178 18k 1946 660*** Venus170 signed Breitling
Ref.797 18k 1946 670*** Venus175 signed Breitling&Premier
Ref.760 SS 1946 676*** Venus175 unsigned
Author:  Dracha [ Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge engravings on pre-1950ies
Ref.784 SS 1944 564*** Valjoux23c unsigned
Author:  chronodeco [ Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge engravings on pre-1950ies
I have not kept data on signed and unsigned bridges as related to serial numbers of 40s Breitlings but I wish I had. Its been all over the map. If Breitling had not had the foresight to put reference numbers on the backs, it would be near impossible to sort out the fakes and/or frankens.
Author:  jlee5050 [ Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge engravings on pre-1950ies
I had a Premier from the mid 40s double signed Breitling and Premier but I've also seen ones without... Indeed a crapshoot.
Author:  Bill in Sacramento [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  There's not an evident pattern
I really don't know the answer, but I wonder if the lack of a pattern is due to a combination of different requirements for marking movements in different countries (the US required it, but others not) and my hypothesis that the serial numbers relate to the purchase date for the case and not the year in which the movement and watch was finished.
Author:  Dracha [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge engravings on pre-1950ies
Bill, from what youve seen , how much time do you think is between buying the case and finishing the watch ?
I imagine that case making is a labor intensive process and the case maker wouldn't ship out 1000's or even 100's of cases in a batch but rather a steady flow of lets say 10 pieces in a box , much like dials, and then several boxes per week ?

Without the sigma processes we have today and the lean methodology to only buy just enough to keep work going without having an enormous inventory I can imagine that Breitling has some inventory but whould this inventory they hold be large enough to really be noticeable in the serial numbers ?
Author:  cruvon [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge engravings on pre-1950ies
Would be interesting to see pics of engravings on the 785's too!
Author:  Bill in Sacramento [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  We don't have much to go on.
Of course, Rene, I really don't know, but I'm guessing from the large number of cases dated to 1945-1946 that they might have been consumed over several years. Can all the "Premiers" we see dated to 1946 have been made in 1946 and the none or few thereafter?

I can't know what the supply practice was then, but I can imagine that will all the Swiss watch companies gearing up for the post-war market, consignments were invoiced and shipped in large batches. We could sure stand to have some records around. If I recall correctly, we're still not sure where the list of serials we are using originates.

I'm just tossing out hypotheses. I may think of more any minute . . .
Author:  Dracha [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge engravings on pre-1950ies
Thanks Bill,
I might just be still 'stuck' in present day life with "FIFO" (first in first out) Lean, just in time, Sigma processes etc

Are there any other similar watch comanies we can compare with that have verified records from that era ? , If Omega / Rolex / Zenith / etc have a more steady stream and correct serial number control, why wouldnt breitling have that ? I hate to think that Breitling is the 'odd case' and used different manufacturing methods than others in the region, and vice versa of course, if other watchmakers have cases made externally and show serial numbers all over the place there's no reason why Breitling would have them all concurrent

again, I might just be looking at it with my modern day manufacturing glasses on ! :D
Author:  cruvon [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge engravings on pre-1950ies
Dracha wrote:
Thanks Bill,
I might just be still 'stuck' in present day life with "FIFO" (first in first out) Lean, just in time, Sigma processes etc

Are there any other similar watch comanies we can compare with that have verified records from that era ? , If Omega / Rolex / Zenith / etc have a more steady stream and correct serial number control, why wouldnt breitling have that ? I hate to think that Breitling is the 'odd case' and used different manufacturing methods than others in the region, and vice versa of course, if other watchmakers have cases made externally and show serial numbers all over the place there's no reason why Breitling would have them all concurrent

again, I might just be looking at it with my modern day manufacturing glasses on ! :D


Here's Rolex's serial numbers for comparison. Offcourse serials are not exact since Rolex doesn't share such information, is mostly what has been observed by collectors over the years.
http://www.oysterworld.de/production-dates.html
References
http://www.oysterworld.de/references.html
and a chart on the various Rolex movements here
http://www.oysterworld.de/automatic-movements.html (would be great if we could come up with something like this for Breitlings and improve on it by adding in movement markings)
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