Gents,
May I bother you for an opinion regarding the authenticity of the watch below? INside caseback and movement shots are for the moment unavailable. What should I find inside if it is original?
Many thanks in advance for your expertise and time.
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| Author: | LouS [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Chronomat 769 |
Gents, May I bother you for an opinion regarding the authenticity of the watch below? INside caseback and movement shots are for the moment unavailable. What should I find inside if it is original? Many thanks in advance for your expertise and time.
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| Author: | timezone [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chronomat 769 |
Looks good to me, however I wait and see what the others think, heres what you should find inside. 1940's Breitling Chronomat ref 769 There is a red 0 - 100 scale near the middle of the dial which can be used for reading 1/100ths of a minute which facilitates computations using the slide-rule. The Swiss cross and the number 217012 on the dial refer to the Swiss government patent that was granted in 1940. In common with other Breitling chronographs at this time, the minute register is marked at 3, 6 and 9 minutes as long-distance phone calls were charged in 3-minute increments in most countries. Long distance and especially international 'toll' calls were very expensive at this time; connection was via the operator; there was no direct dialling, and it was important not to go 'over' one's chosen duration and become liable for a charge of a further three minutes. The turning bezel includes an outer telemeter scale which is used for measuring the distance of a phenomenon that is both visible and audible, eg lightning/thunder. The movement is the Venus 175, 17-jewels with a centre chronograph hand recording seconds, a minute chronograph register at 3 o'clock recording up to 45 minutes, and a running seconds hand on the sub-dial at 9 o'clock. There is no Incablock shock protection and initially the movement is not signed either 'BREITLING' or with the three-letter Breitling movement code, 'WOG'. (Note: small variations occur in the appearance of some of the components of the Venus 175 as fitted in the Chronomat). The Chronomat was also available with an 18K gold case. Mostly but perhaps not always, the Venus 175 movement in this version was more highly finished and stamped 'PREMIER'. Movement: Venus Caliber 175 Swiss Made Manual Wind Chronograph Movement Signed Breitling.  Cotes de Geneve Stamp.
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chronomat 769 |
beautiful piece from 1946. some people I see from time to time (mainly looking in the mirror) would kill for this dial. you will - hopefully - find a Venus 175 inside (may or my not be WOG-marked), could/should be cotes de geneve finished for an 18k. inside caseback should look like this: |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chronomat 769 |
Don't like the replacement red hands, but otherwise looks to be very nice so far, but the innards are obviously pretty important too! |
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| Author: | LouS [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chronomat 769 |
Thank you all for your input and patience in educating a Breitling noob. I am really smitten with the early Chronomats. timezone wrote: The movement is the Venus 175, 17-jewels with a centre chronograph hand recording seconds, a minute chronograph register at 3 o'clock recording up to 45 minutes, and a running seconds hand on the sub-dial at 9 o'clock. There is no Incablock shock protection and initially the movement is not signed either 'BREITLING' or with the three-letter Breitling movement code, 'WOG'. (Note: small variations occur in the appearance of some of the components of the Venus 175 as fitted in the Chronomat). The Chronomat was also available with an 18K gold case. Mostly but perhaps not always, the Venus 175 movement in this version was more highly finished and stamped 'PREMIER'. Movement: Venus Caliber 175 Swiss Made Manual Wind Chronograph Movement Signed Breitling. I am not totally clear on one point. The description says that the movement is not stamped Breitling, yet both movements in the images are. Is there variability in the production run, or are stamped movements necessarily replacements? I also had no idea that the Poinçon de Genève was used that far back! |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chronomat 769 |
Breitling started stamping bridges in the 40s, I would expect that a 1946 would be stamped, but wouldn't be totally shocked if it weren't, certainly only a few years earlier we would be expecting them to be unstamped. |
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| Author: | LouS [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chronomat 769 |
OK, found Alan's 2006 post from which the descriptive text is taken - very helpful. The seller offers this in response to my request for movement pics - it seems plausible based on the information you've all been kind enough to provide. What say you? 
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| Author: | timezone [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chronomat 769 |
I say you have on heck of a beautiful genuine watch there, movement looks good aswell. Just promise one thing! get the red replacmeant seconds changed...does no justice for the watch at all. 
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chronomat 769 |
timezone wrote: I say you have on heck of a beautiful genuine watch there, movement looks good aswell. Just promise one thing! get the red replacmeant seconds changed...does no justice for the watch at all. Well yes, but I don't think that the Breitling on the caseback is original. Unfortunately not uncommon to have someone add that later to try and add value. |
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| Author: | LouS [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chronomat 769 |
At the risk of exposing my ignorance (as if my trousers haven't been around my figurative ankles this whole thread), what should a proper seconds hand look like? Roffensian, I had wondered about the script "Breitling." In looking about the internet, it doesn't appear to be too common a movement and case mark. Is such an addition a severe black mark in the world of vintage Breitling or a relatively minor sin? I guess I'm asking from the point of view of - what shall I call it? - collector esteem as well as actual value. timezone wrote: TZ, it's hard to tell from the photo and I don't mean to quibble, but I don't think that is a Poinçon de Genève, but rather the standard Swiss hallmark for 18K, the profile head of Helvetia. IN any case, the movement does not have côtes de Genève finishing. Finally, gentlemen, a sincere thank you for the thorough and friendly manner in which you have helped out a complete stranger. I'm particularly impressed by the speed of response. I've had posts grow mold elsewhere around the interwebs before seeing a reply....  I will update the forum if I manage to close this deal. |
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| Author: | timezone [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chronomat 769 |
I took your caseback signture and movement..and on my system compaired them. I think there both genuine, writting is done the same as both.  You could be right...only i think second box looks to be in it self mark just as 18K hard to tell. |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chronomat 769 |
Stand by my assessment, and would be amazed to see a Geneva seal on a Breitling In terms of whether it detracts from the watch, well I guess it's better to have it in original condition, but it comes down to how much of a perfectionist you want to be. If you want to find a pristine Chronomat 769 18k then enjoy the next few years searching  Alan Trott's article is a great pictorial resource for the correct hands - http://forums.watchuseek.com/f39/breitl ... -9103.html |
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| Author: | cdaniel67 [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chronomat 769 |
am I missing something. The link shows an 18K version with red hands??? |
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| Author: | timezone [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chronomat 769 |
cdaniel67 wrote: am I missing something. The link shows an 18K version with red hands??? Well spotted I got this pic off the link Roff sent, 18K with red hands..diffrent leather band however. |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Chronomat 769 |
cdaniel67 wrote: am I missing something. The link shows an 18K version with red hands??? I have no issue with the hands being red, I have an issue with those red hands - compare with Alan's, they're different. They should be thinner and with a longer tail on the central seconds. It also looks worse because they are new and the other hands are older. |
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