The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Hi,
I'm a newbie here & don't have much watch knowledge but do, on occasion, buy the odd watch that takes my fancy for no other reason than I like it. I bought this Cosmonaute a few years ago & have always suspected the strap wasn't original although I have seen stainless mesh straps on this watch in old adverts found on the net. I would be very grateful if someone could confirm if this strap is original or not as I would like the watch to be as original as possible.
Thanks.
Wads.

Couple more pics.

I don't think so, but Paul (vintage) is the strap expert.

I don't think so either... correct me if I'm wrong but usually the old school ones got the Breitling wings logo or "B"s on them.

_________________
"I don't got the bright watch I got the right watch" -Jay Z

You can tell just by the way it fits between the lugs that it's not original.

Here is an original but on the wrong watch.

http://cgi.ebay.com/TEAM-Chronograph-VALJOUX-7736-Vintage-Diver-Watch-/180629067195?pt=DE_Kleidung_Schmuck_Accessoires_Uhren_Armbanduhren&hash=item2a0e54d5bb

Would that bracelet be worth more than the watch?

_________________
"I don't got the bright watch I got the right watch" -Jay Z

the mesh is not original , an original mesh looks like this

_________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Breitling and Boats. The rest I wasted" - mostly Elmore Leonard

Thanks for all the replies chaps. I've doubted this strap for ages & really appreciate your views. Especially chuffed with EBay link as that bracelet is probably cheap without the watch & as a bonus I quite like the watch. I'm going to ask the seller what size the bracelet is & keep an eye on how the bidding goes.

That said I also fancied a leather strap as I have three bracelet watches but can't quite get my head round the cost of a proper one. Leather straps have been growing on me lately, could anyone tell me if leather was an original option on my watch?

Thanks again.

Wads

Forgot to mention although the strap is short each side of the lugs it doesn't actually have any sideways movement. Not doubting your info at all just thought I'd mention it.

IMO those B signed mesh bracelets you show a picture of and call original, are all fakes . . . ! !

They started to show up on eBay 6-7 years ago and they was all brand new (just like the one you picture looks) I have never even seen one of them with something one would call patina and it’s just not comparable with beautiful & 40 + years old patinated Navitimers.

How difficult is it to produce a mesh bracelet with 22 mm curved end pieces, put a B on the clasp and call it original, as far as I know (& have seen) there's absolutely nothing apart from the B on the casp that connects them with Breitling.

I think that we must use our common sense here, and mine . . . call it a fake .....

On the contrary the one Wads picture smells of “once upon a time”, it is definitely not original Breitling, but it might very well have been bought with the watch.

Kurt B

Hi Kurt,

As I said in my original post I'm a real novice with watches & you have just saved me from ruining some of the authenticity of my watch! I now know, after a quick google, what Patina is & its value to watches & to think I was about to clean it!! Thanks.

I think you are right about my strap being old but agree with everyone here that the fit is not good & therefore its not original. What I can't understand is why someone would fit such a strap to such a nice watch.

Re your comment about no mesh straps being original I did find a couple of pictures in old adverts whilst researching my Cosmonaute which seem to suggest different. I don't mean to contradict you here especially as I am so inexperienced but it was these pictures that made me question my strap in the first place & thought you might like to see them. They where apparently in 1963 editions of Life & Newsweek magazines.

Well there you have it folks, they're all fakes. With that being said anyone out there that would like to unload those fake mesh bracelets I'd be interested in any that are available for purchase, at a reasonable price of course since they are fake.

Seriously, Breitling was using mesh bracelets on their watches since the 1950's (for example Transoceans/Superoceans). Richters book is full of them. It would be silly to assume that their top tier Navitimer/Cosmonaute would be excluded. Often the other style mesh bracelet is seen on the Nav/Cos but it doesn't look appropriate and too thin for the watch. On more than one occasion I have seen original owner Navitimers/Cosmonautes advertised with this mesh bracelet as original to the watch. Perhaps the condition issue on this style bracelet is because most users preferred a leather strap thus the bracelet never got a lot of wear. Who knows for sure.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&hash=item4aa8290a23&item=320648841763&nma=true&pt=UK_Jewelery_Watches_Watches_MensWatches_GL&rt=nc&si=Cl4bPM%252BHZkAjro4bZQTwphVtLWU%253D

Come on, please don’t use eBay as a reference for originality . . . ! ! !

And where did I state that Breitling watches (including Navitimers & Cosmonautes) was not sold with mesh bracelets, I just don’t believe they was original in the way that they was produced by Breitling, Venus 178 isn’t original Breitling either.

I’m talking about the one pictured by Dracha, I’m explaining why I have come to that conclusion, and I’m stating that it is my personal opinion. But come on mind that my personal opinion is backed up by the many hundreds of Navitimers that have passed through my hands, and the 250 + I have bought, not to mention the many original owners of the watches I have been in contact with.

I’m not the law, I’m just a member stating my opinion, and I certainly can’t legitimate anything, that’s why I wrote IMO . . . ! ! ! !

No problem in my end if you want to call it original (and NOS as all of them ones I have seen was brand new) I just don’t agree.

And just for the record, I honestly don’t believe that Richter is a solid reference book for Navitimers, there’s a pile of wrong information and pictures that are completely non trustworthy.

Take 5 minutes of your time and let me know much wrong information & non trustworthy pictures of watches you can find in my article http://vintageure.dk/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=109

Below here is pictured 2 Navitimers, a 1955 Valjoux 72 AOPA and a 1958 AOPA, I have been told by sellers that they was bought with those bracelets, one of the bracelets is a mesh, none of them is 22 mm in-between the lugs, none of them have curved end pieces and none of them is Breitling signed, the expandable one is a Spiedel and I have seen a lot of them on early Navitimers, they was very popular back then.

Below those 2 is pictured a part of an AOPA flyer from the 50’s showing a gold filled band that is not 22 mm in-between the lugs, and the last one is my all time favorite vintage bracelet that was on the watch when I bought it, this one has curved end pieces, and the smell of patina is allover ........

What I am trying to say with the non 22 mm bracelets is that it didn’t really mean that much back then, remember that the Navitimer was a tool watch.

Kurt B

Don't get your knickers in a wad Kurt. You haven't provided any definite proof that the bracelet is a fake so until you do I'm of the opinion they're genuine until proven otherwise. Besides, I think the quality of the bracelet indicates a properly manufactured piece and not some off the wall creation. Breitling would have sniffed out the trademark violation (B) pretty quick and shut that down.

We all know the Richter book content has to be taken with a grain of salt but until you or Breitling publish something better it's all we have to go by. Ebay is what it is. Like it or not Ebay is a realistic guide to values and there are plenty of honest sellers with quality watches to sell. You don't have to troll around watch forums asking "interested in buying perfect 806 Navitimers" to find a quality piece.

Please come in mind that this is an international Forum, hence one should IMO try to avoid using American slang. I have no idea at all as to what Don't get your knickers in a wad Kurt means, but maybe you or somebody else will be kind enough to let me know.

Breitling would have sniffed out the trademark violation (B) pretty quick and shut that down Do you really believe that they would have tried to do so because of a couple of hundreds mesh bracelets ? Bracelets that was made to fit watches from an other time, watches that wasn’t even produced by the current owners of Breitling. . . ! !

I don’t know what you mean by this You don't have to troll around watch forums asking "interested in buying perfect 806 Navitimers" to find a quality piece has it got something to do with faked bracelets ?

Don’t count on me writing a book, but feel free to ask me any questions you might have about vintage Navitimers, I will do me best to answer them to the best of my capability.

Kurt B