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tritium on Navitimer 806/809
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Author:  schumonster [ Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  tritium on Navitimer 806/809
Hi All,

I am still doing my due diligence on early navitimers. As I have been searching thru the "interwebs" I have noticed a wide variety of coloration of the tritium dial paint. Everything from creme white to green, brown, to pitch black. I have even seen a couple of watch faces which appear to be just painted outlines of the numbers without any tritium painted on the dial. I have a few questions:

1) what causes the varying discoloration of the tritium material?
2) Can the discoloration of the tritium be restored thru appropriate cleaning?
3) Some examples are missing pieces of the tritium paint, is this replaceable?
4) Would a restoration of the tritium detract from the value of the watch? (the watch with the near black numbers I have seen is almost impossible to read)
5) Were navitimers ever made without the tritium paint? (every example in Kurt B.'s history document appears to have the tritium in place)

Thanks in advance.

-Erik
Author:  Roffensian [ Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: tritium on Navitimer 806/809
The problem with tritium is that it ages - all original 806s will now have virtually no lume left because the tritium will have been through multiple (3 - 5 depending on age) half lives. A lot of the discoloration will be simple aging.

The best way to get it relumed is to use SuperLuminova - in the US tritiumis now a controlled substance so it's harder to get anyway.
Author:  Dracha [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: tritium on Navitimer 806/809
As Roff said the half life is one cause , but I dont believe this is the main cause of discoloration ? , I always thought the main problem for tritium is moisture , that will really cause it to darken / blacken

I do not believe you can 'bleach' black tritium back to a lighter shade

If tritium is missing the only 2 options are , leave "as is" or repaint . IMO repainting changes the whole appearance of the watch too much as typically the dial is somewhat faded as well and the new paint doesnt fit with the old dial

repainting may lower the value, or increase the value , depending how (well/badly) its done and who is buying the watch in the future. Hardcore collectors wont touch it anymore , people looking for a daily wearer might jump on it

Personally I do not believe 806's were ever made without tritium and with a bare dial. I ever only seen 1 example where it looked like it wasnt applied but I do not believe in single pieces or 'prototypes' that are different from everything else
Author:  Kurt B [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: tritium on Navitimer 806/809
Watch out that you don’t burn your fingers, I have seen redone numbers & markers that was so well done that I hardly could see that it had been done at all.

If you buy one with redone markers / numbers the collectible value of the watch goes down the drain.

Here's one of the best made examples I have ever seen.

Kurt B
Author:  onewatchnut [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: tritium on Navitimer 806/809
schumonster wrote:
Hi All,


1) what causes the varying discoloration of the tritium material?
2) Can the discoloration of the tritium be restored thru appropriate cleaning?
3) Some examples are missing pieces of the tritium paint, is this replaceable?
4) Would a restoration of the tritium detract from the value of the watch? (the watch with the near black numbers I have seen is almost impossible to read)
5) Were navitimers ever made without the tritium paint? (every example in Kurt B.'s history document appears to have the tritium in place)

Thanks in advance.

-Erik

1) Aging and moisture both contribute to the discoloration.
2) No. The lume on the dial is brittle and easily damaged by any attempt to clean it.
3) No. Tritium is essentially banned. The only way it can be used is encapsulated in a glass cell.
4) See 3 above. Restoration not possible. repainting with current lume products would probably lower the value.
5) If there is a "T" before and after "Swiss Made", the dial contains tritium. The industry moved away from tritium after the 808 and 809 Navi's ended production. I've never seen one without a tritium dial, but Kurt is undeniably the best source of information about these vintage pieces.
Author:  schumonster [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: tritium on Navitimer 806/809
Kurt B wrote:
Watch out that you don’t burn your fingers, I have seen redone numbers & markers that was so well done that I hardly could see that it had been done at all.

If you buy one with redone markers / numbers the collectible value of the watch goes down the drain.

Here's one of the best made examples I have ever seen.

Kurt B


Thanks Kurt,

You are a wealth of info. Have you ever seen an 806/809 without tritium that was legitimate?

Here are two examples one from 1962 and one from 1963 Neither have the "T" marker on the dial. One is clearly painted with tritium the other is not. Looking at your article from Watchlife, the marking seems consistent with the pictures you posted of your collection. the "T" doesn't seem to appear on the dial until around the transition to 2 tone dials in the early 60's.

Image


Image

The subtleties and inconsistencies between the various years of production makes validating originality a challenge over great distances.

My continued gratitude...

-Erik
Author:  Kurt B [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: tritium on Navitimer 806/809
If I had seen one / some, who would then be the ones to legitimate it ?

It's a jungle out there, and I have seen it all.

It dosen't really matter what somebody believes with respect to a Navitimer having been born with or without tritium, according to the collectors believe they was all born with tritium, and that's the sets the value, buy one without and you will never know the truth for sure, buy one with original tritium and you know what you have.


/ Kurt B
Author:  Roffensian [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: tritium on Navitimer 806/809
Kurt B wrote:
If I had seen one / some, who would then be the ones to legitimate it ?

It's a jungle out there, and I have seen it all.

It dosen't really matter what somebody believes with respect to a Navitimer having been born with or without tritium, according to the collectors believe they was all born with tritium, and that's the sets the value, buy one without and you will never know the truth for sure, buy one with original tritium and you know what you have.


/ Kurt B



:yeahthat


Although I also have an answer over who would state that a non tritium one was legitimate (if he owned it) :twisted:
Author:  Dracha [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: tritium on Navitimer 806/809
Kurt B wrote:

Here's one of the best made examples I have ever seen.

Kurt B

Thats actually one of mine :-) (I think ?, looks very similar)

edit.. no its not. this is one of mine :-)
but if anyone know who can that sort of a relume job I am interested , I have an old AVI & 806 dial that would maybe benefit from a relume

Image

Image
Author:  Dracha [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: tritium on Navitimer 806/809
now I am confused.. it really does look like one of mine... I even have the same pic in my folder , serial number 871713
Kurt.. is that a pic of one of my watches , or yours ? .. or am I starting to loose my mind ?

here are some close ups

Image

Image

Image

Image
Author:  Kurt B [ Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: tritium on Navitimer 806/809
It was a picture you sent me long ago.
Author:  Chris K [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: tritium on Navitimer 806/809
Dracha wrote:
but if anyone know who can that sort of a relume job I am interested , I have an old AVI & 806 dial that would maybe benefit from a relume

Good jobs done by ====> http://www.causemann-zifferblaetter.de/ ... spiele.htm

Of course they don't use Tritium anymore. They now use Super Luminova.

Regards
Chris
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