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Sometimes the rare ones score big...
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Author:  tomvox1 [ Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Sometimes the rare ones score big...
Mid-1950s ref. 1-260 SS Unitime in original condition sold at today's (9/15/10) NYC Antiquorum auction for $7500 USD (including buyer's premium):

Image
http://catalog.antiquorum.com/catalog.h ... tionid=240

That's about double where I would have pegged it. Impressive...but it is a pretty rare watch in steel.

Then again, it could be an outlier, as there were some pretty high (IMHO) hammer prices for a trio of Premiers, as well:

Image
http://catalog.antiquorum.com/catalog.h ... tionid=240
Image
http://catalog.antiquorum.com/catalog.h ... tionid=240
Image
http://catalog.antiquorum.com/catalog.h ... tionid=240

:shock:
Could be auction fever but we have seen big gains in Vintage Breitling prices over the last 5 years so who really knows what the new normal is?
Best,
T.

P.S. Adding to the vagaries of auction results, a super rare SuperOcean Chrono with less-than-perfect but original (I believe) dial and original hands & bezel failed to meet the reserve apparently:

http://catalog.antiquorum.com/catalog.h ... tionid=240
Image
:?
Author:  Roffensian [ Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sometimes the rare ones score big...
Was planning to bid on the Unitime as I have been looking for a long time, but went way too high for my tastes. Remember that the buyer's premium is huge - 25%, hammer price was 'only' $6,000, but still a lot more than I was prepared to pay.
Author:  tomvox1 [ Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  The thing about buyer's premium is...
Roffensian wrote:
Was planning to bid on the Unitime as I have been looking for a long time, but went way too high for my tastes. Remember that the buyer's premium is huge - 25%, hammer price was 'only' $6,000, but still a lot more than I was prepared to pay.


...one must assume that people factor that into their bids (they should, at least). Therefore, I don't really get it when we factor it out of the result. In other words, the buyer was willing to pay the gross price inclusive of buyer's premium. Therefore the gross price is the actual price, period, isn't it? Unless you are saying that bidders forget that extra cost in the heat of the moment, which could well be...
Best,
T.
Author:  Roffensian [ Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The thing about buyer's premium is...
tomvox1 wrote:
Roffensian wrote:
Was planning to bid on the Unitime as I have been looking for a long time, but went way too high for my tastes. Remember that the buyer's premium is huge - 25%, hammer price was 'only' $6,000, but still a lot more than I was prepared to pay.


...one must assume that people factor that into their bids (they should, at least). Therefore, I don't really get it when we factor it out of the result. In other words, the buyer was willing to pay the gross price inclusive of buyer's premium. Therefore the gross price is the actual price, period, isn't it? Unless you are saying that bidders forget that extra cost in the heat of the moment, which could well be...
Best,
T.


I can only speak from experience, but I try to be logical about it and factor in the 'total' cost when bidding, but it can be difficult when the bidding actually heats up. Easier by internet as the drama is less (for me at least).

I have to say though that the premiums are getting way out of hand - I know that Antiquorum has costs, but they must make an absolute mint on these - and remember that they also take a chunk of the proceeds from the seller, plus listing and catalogue fees.
Author:  vintage [ Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sometimes the rare ones score big...
I had a Unitime 1-260 I bought for $325 five years ago. I was selling off a few vintage watches to help pay for sons college education and sold it to a broker in California for $1800. I felt it was probably worth about $2400 at the time. They keep going up.
Author:  Yaffle [ Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sometimes the rare ones score big...
Quote:
That's about double where I would have pegged it. Impressive...but it is a pretty rare watch in steel.


When I first saw the picture on antiquorum I thought the dial looked iffy, but Timezone posted some nice pics of it in a trailer for the auction. Not amazing condition but as you say rare.

Attachment:
028 copy.jpg
Attachment:
027 copy.jpg
Attachment:
024 copy.jpg
Attachment:
023 copy.jpg


http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t= ... v=&reveal=

Quote:
P.S. Adding to the vagaries of auction results, a super rare SuperOcean Chrono with less-than-perfect but original (I believe) dial and original hands & bezel failed to meet the reserve apparently:


This is the same Superocean that they sold for $9000 back in December 2009.
http://catalog.antiquorum.com/catalog.h ... tionid=223

Perhaps it has some issues the original buyer didn't like. Also that bezel is not the one that appears in any of the catalogue material or most of the ones I've seen before including my own.
Attachment:
breitlingso10.jpg
(Not mine, picture found on the net)

About the Superocean, does anyone know of an earlier divers chronograph than this one, which I believe came out in 1958. Is this the first waterproof chrono with rotating bezel?
Author:  Roffensian [ Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sometimes the rare ones score big...
Yaffle wrote:
About the Superocean, does anyone know of an earlier divers chronograph than this one, which I believe came out in 1958.


The TransOcean was around the same time - don't recall the exact year from memory.
Author:  Yaffle [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sometimes the rare ones score big...
There's a gold plated one coming up in their next sale.

http://catalog.antiquorum.com/catalog.h ... tionid=241

Quote:
The TransOcean was around the same time


The TransOcean is a time only watch I believe. I was thinking about divers chronographs. Cheers.
Author:  tomvox1 [ Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sometimes the rare ones score big...
Yaffle wrote:
This is the same Superocean that they sold for $9000 back in December 2009.
http://catalog.antiquorum.com/catalog.h ... tionid=223

Perhaps it has some issues the original buyer didn't like. Also that bezel is not the one that appears in any of the catalogue material or most of the ones I've seen before including my own.
Attachment:
breitlingso10.jpg
(Not mine, picture found on the net)


Good point about the bezel. Almost (but not quite) looks like the style for the early Blancpain Fifty Fathoms:

Image

Maybe aftermarket? Or could it be a variation we have not seen before? I agree, it is unusual and thanks for pointing out the difference.

Yaffle wrote:
About the Superocean, does anyone know of an earlier divers chronograph than this one, which I believe came out in 1958. Is this the first waterproof chrono with rotating bezel?


Inetersting question. About the only possible rivals I can think of would be the Movado/Zenith Sub Seas (which may be later):

Image

and the Blancpain Air Command (which should be from right around the same mid-late 1950s period):

Image

I think the BP has a screw down crown. Not sure about the early Super Sub Seas.
Best,
T.
Author:  Yaffle [ Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sometimes the rare ones score big...
Quote:
Good point about the bezel. Almost (but not quite) looks like the style for the early Blancpain Fifty Fathoms:


Yes. It might be correct, but all I can say it is not the one shown in the adverts. Who knows they may have made an second bezel. guess you'd need it in your hand to kow for sure.

Quote:
Inetersting question. About the only possible rivals I can think of would be the Movado/Zenith Sub Seas


Like you I think these are later. One sold at Christie's which was dated 1965.

http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_ ... 103e6f51fa

Quote:
and the Blancpain Air Command (which should be from right around the same mid-late 1950s period):


http://forum.chronomania.net/board_entr ... 002#p87051

A beautiful watch. No one knows much about these, seems they might have been a been produced to compete for the French Type 20 contract. I do think they're a pilot watch though and not deisgned as a divers. Interestingly the back say "water resistant" and not "waterproof" like the Fifty Fathoms.

Here's a couple of nice timelines for Diving watches.

http://lesmala.net/plongee/histoiremontre.htm
http://www.rruegger.ch/dive_watch_history.htm

It looks like the closest one is the Vulcain Cricket in 1961, then the Aquastar Deepstar and Benthos in 1963 as well as the Nivada Chronomaster. Both of these timelines mention the superocean in 1958 and no chronographs before that.
Attachment:
vulcaincricketnauticalvmk2.jpg

http://jlc.watchprosite.com/show-nblog.post/ti-484976/


Attachment:
Nivada_V92.jpg

http://www.invenitetfecit.com/modeles/c ... er_en.html

Attachment:
PICT0016.jpg

http://militarywatch2.monsite-orange.fr ... index.html

Attachment:
Benthos-1.jpg

http://thewatchspotblog.com/?p=581

So it looks like Breitling might have another technical first.
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