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| Breitling chronomat moonphase...what do you think? https://www.breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=20384 |
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| Author: | jonnymatrix [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Breitling chronomat moonphase...what do you think? |
Hi, this is my first post! I wanna ask to you (more expert then me!) about this watch. Is all ok? The hands are correct? Is a fake...or what else? Please i'm waiting for your opinion!!! What is eventually its value? I'm glad to you for yours answer! |
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| Author: | jlee5050 [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling chronomat moonphase...what do you think? |
these moonphase pieces are not my specialty.. the dial looks legit though... never saw a chronomat dial with moonphase before... nothing that looks out of place... someone can add more info... |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling chronomat moonphase...what do you think? |
Looks like a legit 1949 801 Chronomat. Hour and minute hands are incorrect, they should be lumed, chrono seconds is the right style. Subdial hands also look wrong to me, the running seconds hand could be original, but if so then it's actually the chrono minutes hand. Movement is a Venus 174 and while I don't have reference photos to hand I can't see anything wrong with it. Not sure on values of moonphase Chronomats without checking some references so will come back to that. |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling chronomat moonphase...what do you think? |
Still not completely confident on values as I can't find many comparables, and I don't like Richter's numbers. In this condition I would say $3,500 or so, but wouldn't argue the value strongly if someone wants to disagree. |
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| Author: | alexmedwejew [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling chronomat moonphase...what do you think? |
Hour and minute hands can be correct, when the digits are gold-painted. not lumed, Breitling sometimes used this combination. But I think the movement is not original, because Breitling never used this kind of bridge, Breitling always used the Venus with the "V" -bridge and 1949 the bridge have to be signed with "Breitling" or "Breitling premier" For 3500,- dollars its a bargain, I will buy it. |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling chronomat moonphase...what do you think? |
Well as I said, not confident on value. I've seen late 40s watches without engraved bridges, so that doesn't bother me - and I've not seen enough 174s to comment on the bridge. I can't see anything visually wrong with the movement. |
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| Author: | alexmedwejew [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling chronomat moonphase...what do you think? |
Quote: Movement is a Venus 174 excuse, its Venus 184, not 174 Quote: and I've not seen enough 174s to comment on the bridge. not only the Venus 184, but every Venus calibre used by Breitling has the "V" form of the bridge, only Benrus and others used the round bridge. |
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| Author: | jonnymatrix [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling chronomat moonphase...what do you think? |
Thaks for all consideration i apprecieted so much! I agree about the incorrect dial hands...i have a lot of dubt! On the moviment indeed i think is original venus 184. The bridge with a "Breitling or Breitling premier" impression is after the 50th...i think a lot of moviment of the first chronomat without engraved bridge. I'm waiting for other answer and extimation of value! You help guys is very important to me! Thanks a lot! |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling chronomat moonphase...what do you think? |
You're right - 184, my apologies. I stand by my assessment that the bridge is absolutely correct for this movement type, and more important than my opinion - Ranfft agrees - http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db. ... &Venus_184 |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling chronomat moonphase...what do you think? |
In terms of value, the latest version of Richter has a gold one shown at $5,000 - $6,000. Not sure if it's solid or filled. Alex's response to my price suggests that he is thinking closer to that figure, I'm reducing for the current economy and the condition. I'm also not too sure about that price from Richter, but I have nothing bettyer to compare with so it could be that and more. With a piece like this we often need the market to determine the current price so if you are looking to sell then good photos on eBay will likely be your best bet. |
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| Author: | alexmedwejew [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling chronomat moonphase...what do you think? |
Quote: I stand by my assessment that the bridge is absolutely correct for this movement type, and more important than my opinion - Ranfft agrees - http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db. ... &Venus_184 Excuse Roff, but what the Ranfft website shows, is a correct Venus movement, but not a Breitling used Venus, Breitling never used this kind of bridge, only other brands as Benrus, etc, used this Venus movement with this bridge, I am 100 % sure. And the Chronomat bridges of Breitling after 1946 where all signed with Breitling, only 1945 they where not signed. |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling chronomat moonphase...what do you think? |
alexmedwejew wrote: Quote: I stand by my assessment that the bridge is absolutely correct for this movement type, and more important than my opinion - Ranfft agrees - http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db. ... &Venus_184 Excuse Roff, but what the Ranfft website shows, is a correct Venus movement, but not a Breitling used Venus, Breitling never used this kind of bridge, only other brands as Benrus, etc, used this Venus movement with this bridge, I am 100 % sure. And the Chronomat bridges of Breitling after 1946 where all signed with Breitling, only 1945 they where not signed. I guess that we'll agree to disagree on this one. |
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| Author: | Yaffle [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling chronomat moonphase...what do you think? |
Quote: Breitling never used this kind of bridge, only other brands as Benrus, etc, used this Venus movement with this bridge, I am 100 % sure. It would be nice to be able to confirm unsigned Breitling movements by a unique bridge shape, but I'm with Roff on this. I have seen other makers using this bridge shape. I'm certainly happier seeing the an unisigned "V" bridge in an early Breitling, but I'm afraid I'm pretty sure it wasn't unique to Breitling, although it seems a lot more common in them than other makes, and I haven't seen any evidence that would make me believe a different bridge shape wouldn't be correct in a Breitling. Here's a Cyma signed Venus 175 Attachment: cymavenuskikai.jpeg.jpg http://nakahiro.parfait.ne.jp/shasinkan/07.html Here's one by a manufacturer called Parker. Attachment: 36323797_o.jpg http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-RARE-PARK ... 23078ddb37 Whenever I take a watch to my watchmaker with an unknown movement he always tells me to avoid identifying it by the bridge as this is too unreliable, but rather try and match it by the layout of other sections of the movement. |
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| Author: | jonnymatrix [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling chronomat moonphase...what do you think? |
I'm pretty sure that the bridge is correct for a venus 184 moviment...the only dubt is that it's unsigned and this is only acceptable in the early model of chronomat of 46-47...but the 801 i suppose is late (correct me if i'm wrong!). Thanks again for your information and comment! 
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| Author: | Yaffle [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling chronomat moonphase...what do you think? |
Quote: the only dubt is that it's unsigned and this is only acceptable in the early model of chronomat of 46-47... I don't think we can have a hard and fast rule about when Breitling began signing ALL their bridges. I think you can make an argument both ways on this. On the one hand, as you say, you would expect to see some sort of signature by the end of the Forties, but on the other hand this is a rare watch which uses an uncommon movement, I assume that Venus signed the movements before sending them to Breitling (does anyone know for sure?), they may have decided not to bother signing what would probably be a very small supply of movements. If everything else was correct on the watch I would be inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt. There is one other question that intrigues me, the case is either solid gold in which case it should have a solid gold back, or as the steel back suggests it's gold plated. As I said they are rare and I've only seen a few online, but I would wonder about such a rare and expensive watch being produced in a plated version. Steel yes, gold yes, plated? Hmmm. What do people think? I've dug up a couple of other examples. Attachment: vb4.jpg http://people.timezone.com/breitling/bf ... ction.html Attachment: PB090001.JPG This one came up for sale recently. Sadly no movement shots for either. I would take the watch to an experienced watchmaker and ask him to give it a good examination, it's hard to tell too much from the pictures you have. |
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