Chris K's original translation wrote:
We thank you for your letter and are pleased with your interest in our Breitling vintage timepieces.
We shall try to answer a part of your questions.
The Navitimer was produced in 1952 but until 1954 the watch was not yet sold in the public.
Before 1954 the watch was produced as small series "Government Issue" and it was named Navigation Timer.
Hence the name Navitimer, registered in 1955.
As it is frequently the case with the Government, documents have not been made available.
Besides, because it concerned watches for military purposes, they probably have been destroyed afterwards.
In 1958 presumably a series of Navitimers was produced which was equipped with back covers from the year 1953.
Therefore it can occur that a Navitimer with a dial from 1958 has a serial number from 1953.
Our cooperation with AOPA started only in the year 1954.
The contract (original or copy) unfortunately is not in our archives.
Unfortunately all other documents requested by you also do not exist in our archives anymore.
We hope that the above information have made the situation somewhat more understandable.
Takeaway #1 from this is: Where
are these pre-1954 "military-only Navigation Timers? Nothing is so rare that we have not seen at least one example and I have never seen one. Has anyone else around here? Are we to assume that these are the models with Valjoux 72 in them and that the surplus was eventually released to the Public in 1954 (not a bad theory, IMO)? Are there none extant with military caseback issue marks? And what "military" are we speaking of here: Swiss, German, French, USA, etc? Strange that a specific country's military is not mentioned as the original purchaser of these 1952 Navigation Timers.
Love to see one in the metal or maybe someone has a pic--KurtB, ChrisK? Obviously must be ultra rare if one has not surfaced to date...very hard to believe that
all of them would have been destroyed. Pilots tend to get attached to their instruments...
Takeaway #2: Breitling does not have documents to categorically prove that 1953 backs wound up on 1958 models of 806--the gentleman from Breitling is merely stating that it is "probable"/"possible" (and I wonder whether the idea is his or has been furnished to him--sounds like he is repeating it back to me). Although I have to say, I am delighted to hear an official of the company confirm that Breitling could have made a mistake with their serial number/case/dial chronology, which so many aficionados appear to completely rule out in every other possibility but this one. If the 806 could be subject to re-use of out of sequence parts/serial numbers in rare instances, why not other models occasionally?
Also and very importantly: Even if Breitling did indeed put 1953 backs on 1958+ 806 Navis, that does not, as some around here have forcefully declared make them "wrong":
KurtB wrote:
So at least now we have solved the questionable 1953 pieces with the characteristics of a later watch circa 1960’s:, and I assume that we can agree that they are wrong.
ChrisK wrote:
Those dubious "53ers" have the same dial as the 806 Navitimers produced in 1959.
Why was this dial held back 6 years until 1959?
Can't have it both ways--can't believe both that A) Breitling did indeed hold back some casebacks and affix them to cases/dials several years later and then B) somehow that makes these 806s "dubious" or "questionable" or "wrong."
I would also point to this prior statement by KurtB on the difficulty of simply mounting any caseback to any 806 case:
KurtB wrote:
Casebacks are definitely not interchangeable I can guarantee you of that; I believe that they was made in small batches, and then customized to fit each watch case , if they didn’t already do so.
If you take a handful of watches within 20-30 margin in serial numbers, then 1 out of 10 might fit, and the rest can easily be fitted if you know how to do it, but a caseback from one year of production will not fit one from another year, it can be made to fit by a pro (I have a toolmaker that can do magic), but it takes a serious knowledge as how to do, and will require the right tools.
Again, you can't have it both ways. Either the casebacks in the out-of-sequence examples had to have been fitted by someone with the "right tools" (i.e. most likely Breitling) and therefore these 53/58 806s are official production (however anomalous) or the caseback matching difficulty is overrated and not an indicator of authenticity at all really.
Same goes for using the above letter as validating the "first Navitimer" argument: If the letter says they were first produced in
1952, although maybe not signed "Navitimer," they would still share all the general characteristics of an 806, no? Maybe they even had a remarkable dial with all of the nomenclature Breitling would eventually use on their 806s--"B" "Breitling Geneve" "Navitimer" but no AOPA wings perhaps? Who knows what a pre-1954 Navitimer might look like, since we are being told both that they can't exist and that this letter proves they exist at the same time. Confusing, to say the least...
Of course, I too would like to see one of these miracle "military Navigation Timer" models. But then, I am not advocating that this letter is somehow the Gospel According to Breitling either...
I think at best, it is very interesting information but I would hardly categorize it as "proof" of anything, as over and over the fellow states he has
no documentation to reference. File under slightly better than Anecdotal, IMO.
Best,
T.
Source for quotes:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=17092&start=30