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They only need one who doesn't know......

Roffensian wrote:

They only need one who doesn't know......

Yep. I just sent him a message describing what I thought about his 'original' box and paperwork. :wink:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1960-Breitling-Navitimer-806-Box-Papers-/200474808370?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Wristwatches&hash=item2ead3ad032

The only real problem I have with this auction is that I saw the same 806 on ebay twice (easy to recognize because of the screw in the dial) witjhout boxes and paperwork.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110504867341

The box was also on ebay because I did bid on it and I remember it was missing the clasp in the front. Now it's listed with it's "original" box and paperwork. Sigh, I guess sometimes sellers don't realize that us Breitling fans watch everything that comes up on ebay.

I can’t really see the problem here, he’s doing what everybody is doing, and cheating nobody, the box & paperwork are original to the watch.

We have all seen boxes sell at sky high prices like forever, what do you think they are being used for ?

It’s cool to have an original box and they adds considerable to the value, the same goes for papers, some are signed and can be verified to the watch that way, some (like his) are not, but they look like original Breitling papers to me.

I don’t know you and I don’t know what you collect, but if you collect vintage watches, and have vintage watches with box & papers, then I’m quite certain that not all of the ones you have with B & P was born together that way.

He has upgraded his watch by buying original box & papers to it (and they are not that easy to find) in hope of getting a better price, that’s all.

Kurt B

Hello Everyone,
I just joined this forum. Now before all of you cut my head off, let me introduce myself. I am the guy with the Breitling NAV 806/Box combo you are all talking about here. Let me just say I know what you all are saying and completely understand. I have added a revision to the auction stating that the watch and box/papers were not born together, but are both original and in fine condition for being 50 years old( Please see auction). I never intended to mislead anyone and let me say I am an amateur watch collector. I don't take my collecting too seriously as it is only a hobby for me but on the same hand I do realize that some of you are very serious about watch collecting, sometimes even a little over the top about it. But that's ok too. I'm not here to offend anyone or argue or make enemies for that matter. I do want to apologize to anyone I may have mislead or offended though. To be honest when I bought the box on ebay I never even intended on ever selling the watch but I have come across a beautiful Harley Davidson that I really want to buy. My wife told me if I want the bike I have to let go of a few things to justify it. Basically she's tired of all my stuff even if it is really cool stuff. I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong and I do admit I worded the auction WRONG and apologize for it. I would also like to apologize to Paul for getting a little agro on him, but felt a little provoked when he emailed me. To me it sounded like he was a little sour that he didn't win the Breitling box and paper auction.(MY IMPRESSION). So dude I'm sorry. NOW lets get down to brass tacks......Has anyone here ever seen an Ostrich skinned Breitling box like mine? I'm really curious.
Glenn...

Author:	vintage [ Fri May 21, 2010 6:56 am ]
Post subject:	806
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1960-Breitling-Navitimer-806-Box-Papers-/200474808370?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Wristwatches&hash=item2ead3ad032 The only real problem I have with this auction is that I saw the same 806 on ebay twice (easy to recognize because of the screw in the dial) witjhout boxes and paperwork. The box was also on ebay because I did bid on it and I remember it was missing the clasp in the front. Now it's listed with it's "original" box and paperwork. Sigh, I guess sometimes sellers don't realize that us Breitling fans watch everything that comes up on ebay.

Author:	Roffensian [ Fri May 21, 2010 7:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 806
They only need one who doesn't know......

Author:	vintage [ Fri May 21, 2010 7:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 806
Roffensian wrote: They only need one who doesn't know...... Yep. I just sent him a message describing what I thought about his 'original' box and paperwork.

Author:	vintage [ Sat May 22, 2010 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 806
vintage wrote: Roffensian wrote: They only need one who doesn't know...... Yep. I just sent him a message describing what I thought about his 'original' box and paperwork. Just heard back from the guy. "If your so upset you just don't have to bid on my auction. I'm not on any Breitling forums. The majority of the vintage watches sold on ebay don't have their original box and are sold this way. Kinda just sounds like your mad you didn't win the box auction that all. This is why I try and stay away from forums. There are just a bunch of conceited winers on them with nothing better to do than complain about what other people have and they don't and why the stuff they have is so much better than everyone else's . Please stay away from my auction's and please don't harass me any further or I'm going to report you to ebay.Thanks"

Author:	Roffensian [ Sun May 23, 2010 5:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 806
I think you may have touched a nerve there

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Author:	Kurt B [ Sun May 23, 2010 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 806
I can’t really see the problem here, he’s doing what everybody is doing, and cheating nobody, the box & paperwork are original to the watch. We have all seen boxes sell at sky high prices like forever, what do you think they are being used for ? It’s cool to have an original box and they adds considerable to the value, the same goes for papers, some are signed and can be verified to the watch that way, some (like his) are not, but they look like original Breitling papers to me. I don’t know you and I don’t know what you collect, but if you collect vintage watches, and have vintage watches with box & papers, then I’m quite certain that not all of the ones you have with B & P was born together that way. He has upgraded his watch by buying original box & papers to it (and they are not that easy to find) in hope of getting a better price, that’s all. Kurt B vintage wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1960-Breitling-Navitimer-806-Box-Papers-/200474808370?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Wristwatches&hash=item2ead3ad032 The only real problem I have with this auction is that I saw the same 806 on ebay twice (easy to recognize because of the screw in the dial) witjhout boxes and paperwork. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110504867341 The box was also on ebay because I did bid on it and I remember it was missing the clasp in the front. Now it's listed with it's "original" box and paperwork. Sigh, I guess sometimes sellers don't realize that us Breitling fans watch everything that comes up on ebay.

Author:	vintage [ Sun May 23, 2010 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 806
Kurt B wrote: I can’t really see the problem here, he’s doing what everybody is doing, and cheating nobody, the box & paperwork are original to the watch. We have all seen boxes sell at sky high prices like forever, what do you think they are being used for ? It’s cool to have an original box and they adds considerable to the value, the same goes for papers, some are signed and can be verified to the watch that way, some (like his) are not, but they look like original Breitling papers to me. I don’t know you and I don’t know what you collect, but if you collect vintage watches, and have vintage watches with box & papers, then I’m quite certain that not all of the ones you have with B & P was born together that way. He has upgraded his watch by buying original box & papers to it (and they are not that easy to find) in hope of getting a better price, that’s all. Kurt B Of course you're entitled to your opinion but the "he's doing what everybody is doing" arguement I would expect to hear from a 4 year old. I gave that speech to my young son once, "just because everyone else does it doesn't make it right." He's advertising the watch with it's "original" paperwork. It is NOT the original paperwork that came with the watch therefor it's NOT the original paperwork. I don't care if it looks like the original paperwork or not. If it didn't come with that particular watch it isn't the original paperwork. "I don’t know you and I don’t know what you collect, but if you collect vintage watches, and have vintage watches with box & papers, then I’m quite certain that not all of the ones you have with B & P was born together that way." That's right you don't know me so don't assume anything. If I describe a watch as having the original papers it's because I know they're original or have no reason to suspect they aren't. This seller knew otherwise which makes him a liar, plain and simple. I would never represent anything I sell as original to the watch if it wasn't. You may choose to handle things differently on your side of the ocean and that's your perogative. I agree that having the correct style of watch box, or paperwork, makes it more valuable. You can easily say "with genuine Breitling box and paperwork" without indicating that it's original when it's not. Unfortunately too many online sellers subscribe to your philosphy of representing antique watches and when I find them I choose not to deal with them, ever. Along the same line, if someone came to me for a valuation of a piece I wouldn't purchase it from them under any circumstances because it could be seen as a conflict of interest and a lack of integrity. You may be the big Lebowski when it comes to Navitimers, and I respect that, but I won't be buying anything from you if you subscribe to these practices. Paul

Author:	Roffensian [ Mon May 24, 2010 6:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 806
I have to say that I am with Paul on this one. There is a difference between period paperwork and original paperwork. If we consider the many discussions in the replica section about ensuring that serial numbers match on paperwork and watch, for me the situation is the same here. In a modern watch if serial numbers don't match then the assumption is that someone is trying to commit a scam. For me, this is no different. The reason why watches with original boxes and papers are more valuable is beause they are so rare, and trying to create such watches simply to increase commercial value is wrong. Just because a lot of people do it doesn't mean that it's right, just like the fact that a lot of watches come from South America doesn't mean that they are right. If you create a vintage package then declare that the watch is being sold with non original, period correct b&p. A claim of originality when they clearly aren't original to the watch is misrepresentation and may be a criminal offence in some jurisdictions.

Author:	onewatchnut [ Mon May 24, 2010 7:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 806
I have several antique pocket watches with the original box and papers. The serial numbers on the paper match the serial number on the watch movement and on the watch case. That's "Original box and papers"! Anything else is just a box. The distinction between the two categories is reflected in the price!

Author:	Inthewind [ Mon May 24, 2010 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 806
Hello Everyone, I just joined this forum. Now before all of you cut my head off, let me introduce myself. I am the guy with the Breitling NAV 806/Box combo you are all talking about here. Let me just say I know what you all are saying and completely understand. I have added a revision to the auction stating that the watch and box/papers were not born together, but are both original and in fine condition for being 50 years old( Please see auction). I never intended to mislead anyone and let me say I am an amateur watch collector. I don't take my collecting too seriously as it is only a hobby for me but on the same hand I do realize that some of you are very serious about watch collecting, sometimes even a little over the top about it. But that's ok too. I'm not here to offend anyone or argue or make enemies for that matter. I do want to apologize to anyone I may have mislead or offended though. To be honest when I bought the box on ebay I never even intended on ever selling the watch but I have come across a beautiful Harley Davidson that I really want to buy. My wife told me if I want the bike I have to let go of a few things to justify it. Basically she's tired of all my stuff even if it is really cool stuff. I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong and I do admit I worded the auction WRONG and apologize for it. I would also like to apologize to Paul for getting a little agro on him, but felt a little provoked when he emailed me. To me it sounded like he was a little sour that he didn't win the Breitling box and paper auction.(MY IMPRESSION). So dude I'm sorry. NOW lets get down to brass tacks......Has anyone here ever seen an Ostrich skinned Breitling box like mine? I'm really curious. Glenn...

Author:	vintage [ Tue May 25, 2010 3:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 806
Inthewind wrote: Hello Everyone, I just joined this forum. Now before all of you cut my head off, let me introduce myself. I am the guy with the Breitling NAV 806/Box combo you are all talking about here. Let me just say I know what you all are saying and completely understand. I have added a revision to the auction stating that the watch and box/papers were not born together, but are both original and in fine condition for being 50 years old( Please see auction). I never intended to mislead anyone and let me say I am an amateur watch collector. I don't take my collecting too seriously as it is only a hobby for me but on the same hand I do realize that some of you are very serious about watch collecting, sometimes even a little over the top about it. But that's ok too. I'm not here to offend anyone or argue or make enemies for that matter. I do want to apologize to anyone I may have mislead or offended though. To be honest when I bought the box on ebay I never even intended on ever selling the watch but I have come across a beautiful Harley Davidson that I really want to buy. My wife told me if I want the bike I have to let go of a few things to justify it. Basically she's tired of all my stuff even if it is really cool stuff. I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong and I do admit I worded the auction WRONG and apologize for it. I would also like to apologize to Paul for getting a little agro on him, but felt a little provoked when he emailed me. To me it sounded like he was a little sour that he didn't win the Breitling box and paper auction.(MY IMPRESSION). So dude I'm sorry. NOW lets get down to brass tacks......Has anyone here ever seen an Ostrich skinned Breitling box like mine? I'm really curious. Glenn... Thanks for manning up, signing up, and clarifying your auction. A lot of us on this forum are particularly passionate about everything Breitling and, although I don't think I'm over the top, I certainly fall into the passionate category. I'm also ex military so INTEGRITY is spelled with all capital letters for me. Anyway, I'm happy to see you've come around to our way of thinking. I have to admit I was a little peeved that the box disappeared off Ebay while I was the high bidder but that often happens with Ebay and is just the nature of the beast. I've only seen a couple of those boxes before so they're pretty rare. I've never seen another for sale so can't address the value but I had a $350 bid on it if I remember correctly. Now go sell the watch and get that Harley! Paul

Author:	Roffensian [ Tue May 25, 2010 5:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 806
No head chopping here - you are one of the tiny minority that would actually take the trouble to sign up here and clarfiy your auction - and you deserve respect for that. Just one thing to correct you on - it's not possible to be over the top about vintage Breitlings I've only seen one previous box like this in the flesh and pictures of a few others - don't recall pricing. Good luck with the sale and good luck with the Harley.

Author:	jlee5050 [ Tue May 25, 2010 9:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 806
Wow... indeed... R E S P E C T . . . takes a lot to say something like that... especially on the web where you really could've not cared at all... good luck on the sale and good luck on your new acquisition~!

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