The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Well Roff, but on the same note I don't understand why I or anyone would profess our love for that listing/seller since it's trying to take vintage collectors for a ride, fully knowing what's being sold. That is surely not a honest representation of the watch and am sure you and I know it and the same reason Kurt or none of us bought that watch or are willing to bid on that watch,

And no, I don't hate Bill or the seller that initially owned that watch. I am continuing our discussion based on the watch Kurt initially posted and would have said exactly the same thing if some seller other than Bill had put that watch up for sale on Ebay purporting it to be a holy grail. As for Bill, It just so happens that Bills watches appear in so many watchout discussions, if they were honest examples then they wouldn't have and not everyone is knowledgeable enough to do their research. It just so happens that I am interested in similar references like the Navitimers, that Bill too sells and which I comment on as a collector, so it might look like I am sounding him out, which is not the intention,

So many vintage lovers. some might call them gullible, I would call them honest buyers, go by Ebay recommendations on sellers and by the flowery words they write. That's a dangerous thing but doesn't give any seller the right to take them for a ride and ruin this hobby for everyone!

Then target the real crooks.

I don't know what has happened with Bill recently, but he is a very, very long way from the serial offenders on eBay. If you are on a crusade to save eBay buyers from bad sellers then target the right people - the only seller that you bring up repeatedly is Bill.

Well Roff, I have posted 129 watches in the watchout identification section and they are surely not all Bills. Bills not as famous as our infamous friend here, but he is surely misleading buyers in the garb of calling himself a Breitling expert and using those high historic positive Ebay ratings to push non collectible watches as highly collectible. I couldn't have got myself to sell a watch like that with that description, in all honesty I would chuck it away in a drawer and forget about it rather than sell it using that description.

search.php?keywords=&terms=all&author=cruvon&fid%5B%5D=31&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=topics&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

PS: Btw our infamous friend has mysteriously turned up on another forum looking reformed

OK, if we are going to play this game then let's play and apologies to all for taking this off topic, but apparently we have a serious case of denial.

Cruvon's quotes on Bill from his list of posts:

"I am frankly not surprised by former good sellers chasing money when faced with adversity or other situations and going under, with no worries about reputation. I am not piling on on Bill and only wished he would see reality.

'He's a joke that's not funny!"

"well, am actually not surprised, saw this coming long ago...it's better to save ones reputation than engage in this conduct just to make a sale even if can't get anymore vintage Breitlings in the market!"

I only went back to July, there are more.

Compare with some of the other 129:

"Never seen one like this"

"Genuinel vintage Breitling?"

If you can't see the differences then it is through a wilful refusal to and I am not willing to try and have a discussion with a brick wall, I'm done on this discussion. Bill is not the seller he used to be and I have said so a number of times. We all know that you don't like him and for whatever misguided reason choose to target him at any opportunity, I hope it makes you happy.

Well Roff, not to take this off topic but I still stand by what I wrote in those few posts out of 129 where Bill came up with very dishonestly describing watches for unfair gain. He describes himself as a vintage Breitling expert and was previously highly recommended here on Breitlingsource so is only fair that he now being dishonest with his listings will draw flak. I still don't understand why the love for him when we have 100's of postings on our infamous friend and other sellers here who do the wrong thing. Not sure why I should have said anything kind about his postings which are all to do with trying to make a fast buck out of vintage collectors. And no, I don't dislike him as a person but him as a seller so its not personal, my posts speak for themselves. But enough said on this topic I guess!

San, you might listen to me ?

Bill Shaine used to be the most meticulous describer of even small inconsistencies - not anymore, just like the rest of the sellers he resorts to hyperbole. some of his listings were over the thin line between sales lingo and deceiving language and I often am the one who lists these watches here, I think the "Oh Bill" is quoting me.

BUT: Bill Shaine still lists mostly decent to good pieces, often impeccable beauties; he is still the ONLY ebay seller I point people to when they ask me where to look for vintage Breitlings, nobody else comes close to offering that selection of vintage Bs.

Remember that he is NOT offering those watches on a collector forum where he would probably list all minor issues, but on ebay, quite a difference.

I have bought several watches from Bill and found him easy to deal with, reliable and very friendly; I would be happier if he would just quit offering those questionable pieces, but this isn't one of them - it's imperfect and the market will judge it accordingly, you'll see that reflected in the sales price - despite all, Bill is still the best address we have on ebay - but, as Rene says, DYODD.

San, you are overdoing it.

Cheers Fred, I do understand your point of view but I would be wary of recommending a seller like that without a warning attached, so that collectors don't take that as a blanket positive verification of credentials and pass that info to friends, who might not do their due diligence. He is touting his vinatge Breitling expertise and selling the watches as highly collectible when they are not though as you state, he does sell good ones too. On the same note, in the vintage Rolex community too, a similar vintage Rolex seller would be regarded as dishonest in his descriptions, so I don;t think buyers are asking for too much.

Like trying sell a Rolex Milsub Grail with that description but with the issues that the NAvi Grail has and that would spell doom to the sellers reputation irrespective of the good all correct sales he might have made, just like in every profession in life. I must admit I have had a keen affliction to trying getting things right for fellow collectors and that got me to start the thread on vintage Rolex sellers too, quite a few of whom had to be taken off or banned along the way because of similar behaviour even though they had a mix of some good all correct sales along the way http://rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=180461 along with the dodgy ones, but am not expecting the same everywhere

Here's how his Ebay listing describes himself so he's def targeting collectors