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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:38 am 
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onewatchnut wrote:
Don't want to muddy the water, but I think the 730 is rated at 21,600 and the 72C is 18,000. You might want to check. I'm at work and my Bestfit book is at home in the shop. I think the 72C has a balance with screws and the 730 is screwless.


Hmmm

Need to check again then - the 730 isn't listed separately in Bestfit (unless I missed it).


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:21 pm 
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onewatchnut wrote:
Carlos wrote:

What's your opinion on this issue concerning my Aviation 6081, Buren 12:

It’s always had an excessively tight time setting and winding function – but it’s always run sweet at around +2 seconds per day – I “charge it up” by waiting for the right time, and moving my arms around (it makes exercise interesting!). I figure the manual winding issue can wait as long as it keeps such great time and I never force the crown.


I'm a little confused about the excessive resistance in both functions. Is the stem difficult to pull out/push in? If so, there could be something binding on the stem, winding pinion, etc. From your description, it sounds like it has always been like this. If it has only been difficult to operate since it was last serviced, I would suspect something wasn't assembled or lubricated correctly.

Stiff time setting is usually a cannon pinion that is too tight, while stiff winding is in a totally different area of the movement. There are a number of intermediate gears in the winding train that transfer the power from the stem to the mainspring barrel. It's only a guess, but the problem could be somewhere in there. There should be very little resistance to winding. If it only gets tight after several turns of the stem, it is probably caused by the mainspring sticking in the barrel when it is fully wound. As you know, the spring is supposed to slip in the barrel. If the mainspring is not slipping as it should, the only solution is to service it.
Carlos wrote:
Anyway, after wearing for a couple of days it stopped. I listened as I moved it around, and could hear the winding – but unlike other times, it didn’t run. Then, I gave it a nice flick with my finger – and it started to run no problem – back to +2 seconds per day

I would have suspected that I may have not fully would the mainspring – but after the finger flick, it rand for well over 40 hours. This occurred two weeks ago, and there has been no problem since.

Any idea what the issue could be to cause such a once-off freeze of the movement?


It could be any number of things. Moving it around with too much vigor when it is completely run down is not recommended. The balance can hang on the pallet fork because the fork can wander around a bit if one of the stones is not in contact with the escape wheel when there is no power to the going train. If it were mine, I wouldn't worry about it unless it happened more than once.


Thanks onewatchnut.

Yes, the stem is a little "sticky" - although it isn't as bad as it was a few months ago. I gently wound the movement the other day and set the time. There is still excessive resistance - but nowhere near as much as before & no slippage.

Obviously she will need a service at some stage. I'll hold off unless the stoppage occurs again. When the time does arise, would you be interested in doing the work?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:06 pm 
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onewatchnut wrote:
Don't want to muddy the water, but I think the 730 is rated at 21,600 and the 72C is 18,000. You might want to check. I'm at work and my Bestfit book is at home in the shop. I think the 72C has a balance with screws and the 730 is screwless.


Alright, have Bestfit in front of me.

From memory the 730 was the last iteration of the 72 family (that includes the 78 and the 88). According to Bestfit all of these have the same balance - the 2.5Hz 698 / 699 (depending on whether it is with or without incabloc). The 730 itself is not listed in Bestfit.

However, as you note the 730 is a 3Hz movement and so obviously needs a different balance. Maybe this is why the watchmaker was having problems as mentioned by the OP.

So as a newbie to the world of parts ordering..........

Now what Marty??????????


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:41 pm 
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Jules Borel http://www.julesborel.com/ has the complete balance for the 730. The part number is 721/2043 with a price around $25. They list it at $23.30, but a lot of the prices are old and the new one posts when you check out. With an account, you can search just about all the movements ever manufactured. The watchmaker in Ohio should have an account with them, if he does any work at all. If not, he can set one up. I've dealt with them for years and they are usually good at getting parts to you quickly.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:44 pm 
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onewatchnut wrote:
Jules Borel http://www.julesborel.com/ has the complete balance for the 730. The part number is 721/2043 with a price around $25. They list it at $23.30, but a lot of the prices are old and the new one posts when you check out. With an account, you can search just about all the movements ever manufactured. The watchmaker in Ohio should have an account with them, if he does any work at all. If not, he can set one up. I've dealt with them for years and they are usually good at getting parts to you quickly.


Perfect.

Is that different from Frei and Borel or part of the same company?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:53 pm 
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Different company. Don't know the history. Could have started out as the same family coming from Europe and split off earlier.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:13 pm 
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Carlos wrote:
Thanks onewatchnut.

Yes, the stem is a little "sticky" - although it isn't as bad as it was a few months ago. I gently wound the movement the other day and set the time. There is still excessive resistance - but nowhere near as much as before & no slippage.

Obviously she will need a service at some stage. I'll hold off unless the stoppage occurs again. When the time does arise, would you be interested in doing the work?


It depends on how busy I am when you decide to service it and where you are located. I'm in the USA and am not set up to receive and ship outside the country. Most of my work is local from word of mouth or from others in the trade.

A word of warning. The micro-rotor in the Buren movements is the weakest part of the watch and almost impossible to obtain. If it were mine, I would wind it from the stem instead of rotating it to wind it with the rotor. The stem should have a "click" feel when you pull it out or push it in. If not, the clutch lever might not be engaged correctly.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:06 am 
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onewatchnut wrote:
Carlos wrote:
Thanks onewatchnut.

Yes, the stem is a little "sticky" - although it isn't as bad as it was a few months ago. I gently wound the movement the other day and set the time. There is still excessive resistance - but nowhere near as much as before & no slippage.

Obviously she will need a service at some stage. I'll hold off unless the stoppage occurs again. When the time does arise, would you be interested in doing the work?


It depends on how busy I am when you decide to service it and where you are located. I'm in the USA and am not set up to receive and ship outside the country. Most of my work is local from word of mouth or from others in the trade.

A word of warning. The micro-rotor in the Buren movements is the weakest part of the watch and almost impossible to obtain. If it were mine, I would wind it from the stem instead of rotating it to wind it with the rotor. The stem should have a "click" feel when you pull it out or push it in. If not, the clutch lever might not be engaged correctly.


Thanks - no worries. I will find a local Sydney guy eventually, and give him your info as guidance.

The click is quite positive. The bad news is that the slipping has returned when I try to set the time BUT, the winding now seems to be normal - just the usual resistance, perhaps a bit more than my 7750 piece.

I will take your advice re winding, especially as it now seems OK.

I wonder if a bit of an old rubber seal has come loose and is lodged somewhere affecting the clutch...maybe this piece has further brocken down and moved, hence the change in symptoms?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:00 am 
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WOW. Thank you all SOOOO much for the time and effort you have put in for a complete stranger. I wish there was some way I could repay the favor. I can't wait to have this watch cleaned up and running. I nice new crystal and black leather band is going to make it so nice... Thanks again. I truly appreciate the help.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:38 pm 
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Carlos wrote:
Thanks - no worries. I will find a local Sydney guy eventually, and give him your info as guidance.

The click is quite positive. The bad news is that the slipping has returned when I try to set the time BUT, the winding now seems to be normal - just the usual resistance, perhaps a bit more than my 7750 piece.

I will take your advice re winding, especially as it now seems OK.

I wonder if a bit of an old rubber seal has come loose and is lodged somewhere affecting the clutch...maybe this piece has further brocken down and moved, hence the change in symptoms?

Given the changing symptoms, I would find a watchmaker and get it in for service. Whatever is going on is not good for the movement. If you have trouble locating a nearby watchmaker you trust, try Craig (Chronodeco) who might be set up for international servicing.

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