The Breitling Watch Source Forums

What a great discussion. Some very interesting information.



Congrats on the 769, is the dial you show on the watch in your earlier post, the same as the white dial
you show next to the original watch in your last post?

Breitling's history isn't that old really, when you think that Jack Heuer is still around and he would have worked
through the Sixties as Breitling's partner/competitor, it makes you wonder why we can't find a few more original
Breitling employees to fill in some of the blanks.

Recently I had the pleasure to meet Bob Maloubier and talk with him. He is the man who helped create the Fifty Fathoms in 1954!

Yes it is the same dial . The latest pics are from the untouched watch . I still have the original dial ... If I am lucky to find one , I should be pleased to go back to an original black dial in good condition!

To those people who come here because of a link on Chrono 24 from museum shop, you should be aware that Museum Shop and associated sellers are well known on this forum and the proprietor has been banned under numerous IDs. Conduct a search here of the vintage section and you will find a number of pieces offered by Museum Shop that this community believe to be franken watches or outright fakes.

Please proceed with caution.

I will offer a first few links for the reading pleasures of new forum members

http://www.breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/v ... 31&t=36783
http://www.breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/v ... 11&t=31944

_________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Breitling and Boats. The rest I wasted" - mostly Elmore Leonard

Today I came back to the core of this post - I mean the guys who really made the story , not the "sage" comic . I had a 30' phone call with Mr Wajs and he told me some details on what he bought from Breitling, what he sold back to Sinn , what he bought from J.Zurbuchen .
I think that his informations + those that would come from Jean Zurbuchen will be helpfull to understand some more things about this dark period of the Breitling story .
I continue to collect informations in order to write a synthesis at the end of February .

Yesterday guys Mr Wajs revealed me a spicy fact about the story of Breitling SA .
As a final chapter of the dispatch of firma Leon Breitling capital E. Schneider bought the brand Breitling and all remaining things that had not been sold to smaller players .
In the package it was an "assembly line" ... at this period , Schneider did not believe in any kind of future of mechanical watches , and he still had enough machines in his Grenchen Sicura plant ... so he sold the Breitling assembly line to... Rolex!

At this period the swiss law stipulated that the industrial property was setted by effective manufacturing anteriority . Considering that Mr Wajs started to assemble watches from Navitimer parts at the beginning of 1981 , he was the effective owner of industrial property on Navitimers . Mr Wajs told me that this law was changed a short time before 1985 , when Breitling launched the "Old Navitimer 81600" .
Schneider brang Mr Sinn to german justice, and neither Zurbuchen or Wajs were determined enough to dispute the rights to Schneider ... a dark side of the beginning of Breitling SA and rebirth of the Navitimer.

That's very interesting, hadn't heard any of that before (again)

I'll study this thread more carefully over the weekend, but I think we need a summation of where we are. If I understand this last conversation correctly, Wajs is telling us that Sinn, himself, and Zurbuchen all made watches with "Navitimer" on the dial between 1980 and 1985. Some had recycled parts from the original company. None could have "Breitling" on them. Since 1985, only Sicura/Breitling AG make "Navitimers."

No , Bill, their watches did not have "Navitimer" on the dial . Schneider was the owner of the brand and deposed names as Navitimer was.
In 1980 the design of the Navitimer was more than 20 years old and not protected .
Wajs, Sinn and Zurbuchen were " recycling" unmarked Breitling parts , replacing marked parts by neutral ones , printing their own dials .
We have to accept that things were not 100% clear from both sides ... and as Schneider was determined , he won against less determined guys .

Thanks for the clarification. So, then, Schneider and Sicura/Breitling have prevented any Navitimer-matching-style watches being made by others since 1985? Wajs' current inventory was all made before 1985?

I shall ask some more questions to Mr Wajs furtherly. As far as I know, under his brand Aviation he issued variations of Navi designs after 1985 , depending on components available or re - launched . At the beginning, all Aviation watches were using cases of 7806 , 8806, 1806. Furtherly came back a rice beaded bezel - 94 beads- that was not used primarily .

About Breitling prevention against others, just look that pic
It is a Mondia TopGun - brand of the Zenith group circa 1985-1987 ... Can you believe that Zenith would have faked Breitling? My feeling is that Breitling adapted the design with an angle slide rule and not flat, to find its own identity from the basic design which was felt in public domain.

Just an information about Aviation early references : the ref 6087 was using casing and cal 7740 of the 7806 ( 6.0.8.7 as the mirror of 7.8.0.6) and the 6081 was using casing and cal.11 of 1806.

Today I gave a phonecall to Mr Peter Wyss, as Mr Jean Zurbuchen had spoken to me of this gentleman.
Some of the informations given by PW are in contradiction with previous datas held from JZ himself.
According to PW, JZ has been acting as a talentuous employee at L.G. Breitling at the beginning of his career . Then when Breitling came against difficulties, he left and established first thru a repair shop and then specialized in horological antiquorium .
PW had bought the property rights of the brand Orator... JZ and PW cooperated in order to develop their own watches using Valjoux 7750 and to consolidate their needs to get better conditions together from case makers .
PW had some Breitling parts that he dispatched to private enthusiasts on horological fairs and swapmeets many years ago , and he does not have anything at the time - except a limited quantity of NOS Chrono-matic 2111 empty cases . He also spoke about a certain Mr Zuccati - never heard anything of him before, and this gent died years ago - who had bought a large batch of mechanical parts and calibers - directly from LG Breitling or as a rank 2 player, PW does not remember the details.
That's all for today ...
No answer from JZ to my letter and several phone calls without success - but PW confirmed that as far as he knows no problem occured on JZ' s side since January .
Shall try again soon!