The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Very interesting piece. Actually some pictured almost identical in the Richter book. My concerns would be that Landeron movement (again), the Breitling script on the dial appears overly large for the era, and the British military markings are very, very easy to duplicate because they were so crude, in most cases during this timeframe, to begin with. The lack of any serial number at all inside the case back. My 1930's chrono had a serial number. I would like to give the benefit of the doubt on this one since maybe it's the proof that a Landeron movement was used in a Breitling that we've been waiting to see. He's also selling a very nice 1964 Navi which looks fine. What say yee?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1936-39-Breitling-Royal-Air-Force-Chronograph-2458-RARE-/320658712678?pt=UK_Jewelery_Watches_Watches_MensWatches_GL&hash=item4aa8bfa866

Interestingly while looking this up in Richters book, I spotted the picture of the Breitling Sprint-Montbrillant on page 18. Note that it has both Fab Suisse and Swiss made, Swiss in this case, on the bottom of the dial. We were discussing that last week about why it would be on the dial twice.

I see a lot of things that look right, but I also have some concerns, even beynd the scepticism that we always show when presented with a Landeron. The bridge engraving is likely a late addition, and this is very, very early to have three minute markers on the dial (and guilloche finish on a military watch???). Perhaps the biggest worry though is what's been removed from the caseback - it's a rather coarse grinding, even by the military standards.

The seller seems to have correct items for sale, so maybe he or she is just fooled. The seller has included lots of really good quality images, which suggests to me that they believe it's the real deal. I don't.

1. Pattern 3169 is for stop-timers and wrist chronographs with stop-watch functions only - in other words, no hour and second hand. Knirim's book on UK military watches has a page on them (page 618, which might be one of the goofyist pages in the book, but we can discuss that elsewhere). Wesolowski shows one on pages 138-139.

2. That is a 721-type case with those deco lugs. I think Breitling made these from late-1930s into the 1940s. [Richter's examples are on pages 17 - one-button - and 29, and an ad on page 18.] I'm holding what I think is a 1940s version (marked 721 and 467012) and the construction of the lugs is much different. [Do the lugs of the one in auction look like they've been glued on?] I wish I had some better images of mine handy, but Breitling casework is much tidier than this. [These look newly made and unpolished.]

3. The close-up of the dial makes me think it's been re-painted. Such a nice view of script "Breitling" on the dial, but it shows it's a reproduction. Mind you, I like it and would readily accept it for a restored dial of mine (well, I would be unhappy if it were so big). But, that signature is not original.

4. My later version has a Venus 170, unsigned movement. I'm not so worried about Landerons occasionally slipping in, but the rest of the watch is not original either.

5. It needs a serial number on the inside caseback. For UK military watches, I think all extraneous numbers were removed from the outside casebacks so as not to confuse with the issue serial numbers, but in this period there should be one on the inside. The script "Breitling" on the inside caseback is an unwelcome addition.

6. Fancy, deco lugs seem a very, very unlikely choice for a military watch. We can joke about the unit that might have worn these. They would have been in a lot of pub fights.

7. I don't think the red sweep seconds hand is correct either, but that is a more minor point.

Hi there, I'm new to your forum but am very glad I came across your site. I always wanted to get myself a nice vinatage Breitling but my knowledge of them isn't great. Saw the watch you are discussing on Ebay & thought it looked great & was thinking of bidding. Glad I didn't!!

Would any of you guys be able to tell me where you would recommend for a good place to source genuine watches?

Thanks in advance,

Phillip

There are some genuine ones on eBay, that's still the most active market. Just be sure to check in here before bidding!

Will do. Thanks for advice

The engraving on the back looks like it was done last week! So LAME!

_________________
S. Craig Bergsma

quote:
On 21-Feb-11 at 09:07:30 GMT, seller added the following information:

For more info please visit official Breitling web site and click on 1936 on the history bar. Read text and look at the photo. Its my watch on the right.

http://www.breitling.com/en/index.php#/since/



So, Grail or not ? the lugs look correct ? This still leaves:

interesting

That partial picture is the same as in the Richter book and doesn't indicate, by any stretch of the imagination, that it's a military model. That reference is for the aircraft instrument clock pictured. The British were pretty exacting as to what passed muster as a military timer prior to getting official approval and most offerings were fairly spartan in construction. The sellers watch design is of a design used by Breitling in the thirties but Breitling also wasn't the only one to use this popular shape. We're simply saying that the watch, as described, doesn't fit the description of a military watch and the pictures would indicate it probably didn't start life a a Breitling. If it did then it was apparantly modified into something that's not 100% original.