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Wire Fraud....be careful
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Author:  mfserge [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Wire Fraud....be careful
Guys, take a look at this recent event over on another board. An incoming wire transfer may not be as secure as I thought. It's worth a read for sure.

http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t= ... 9930&rid=0

Edit: it wasn't a wire transfer, actually a direct account deposit... I know I would have fallen victim to that fraud as well....very scary.
Author:  F14D_Tomcat [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wire Fraud....be careful
Ha ha, I experienced about the same thing but did not fall for it.

Actually, I was selling my daughter's playstation (hence a much smaller amount involved) and the "Mrs" interested also asked for my bank's coordinates for the payment. When I required payment by check and refused to give my bank's coordinates (because I never do, especially on the net), I never heard from her ever since.

True, there was one thing that tipped me off: she was based in the US and wanted me to ship the playstation to her "son" in Nigeria (ha ha ha :twisted: ). On top of that she was willing to pay $ 400 (shipping included) for a PS 2 worth maybe less than $ 100.
Author:  sharkman [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wire Fraud....be careful
I think what the TZ OP didn't do was distinguish between "incoming wire" or "incoming account transfer" and "pending deposit." It's understandable but one must check WHAT is pending or has posted to your account.

Within a single bank, it isn't usually a wire transfer but either an account transfer or Ledger transfer. Bewteen banks it is almost always a wire transfer (rarely they can be ledger transfers which in instantaneous.).

If the pending funds show up Wire Transfer, Account Transfer, or Ledger Transfer AND are reflected not only in your Pending Balance but Available Balance, you are nearly 100% safe.

Since the scammer deposited a phoney cashier's check, what the TZ OP had to see looking on his account online was "Pending Deposit" or simply "Deposit." Either of those are a clear indication it was NOT a transfer. Some banks will allow a deposit to reflect immediately in your available balance - a direct deposit paycheck is an example most of us are familiar with - but you are never safe if you do not know the depositor. What the scammer did here was a variation of the Nigerian funds transfer email scam. Or the one I get in my work email every week about the Chinese Manufacturing concern looking for an attorney trust account in the US to run funds at a huge % to the attorney. Many have fallen for this. My only reply to them was last week and it went something like - "F### you, you mother f###### scammer! I have forwarded all you emails to the US State Dept and Chinese Embassy. Again I say - F### You!!" Of course I didn't contact anyone, but it felt good to hit "send."

So LOOK at what the transaction is called. Never disburse funds on a pending deposit unless you are clear the deposit is safe - hopefully that applies to all members employers.
Author:  mfserge [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wire Fraud....be careful
Wouldn't a cashier's check show up as immediately available in your account? A cashier 's check is similar to depositing cash. That is really unfortunate, I guess the lesson here is to make sure you understand what type of deposit was made into your account then allowmthe appropriate 'clearing' time before sending the item.
Author:  sharkman [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wire Fraud....be careful
mfserge wrote:
Wouldn't a cashier's check show up as immediately available in your account? A cashier 's check is similar to depositing cash. That is really unfortunate, I guess the lesson here is to make sure you understand what type of deposit was made into your account then allowmthe appropriate 'clearing' time before sending the item.



Not really. It depends on the bank, but EITHER way it will not show as a wire, account, or ledger transfer. If it says - DEPOSIT, do not ship your watch unless it was set up as a deposit AND you know the buyer.
Author:  F14D_Tomcat [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wire Fraud....be careful
mfserge wrote:
Wouldn't a cashier's check show up as immediately available in your account? A cashier 's check is similar to depositing cash. That is really unfortunate, I guess the lesson here is to make sure you understand what type of deposit was made into your account then allowmthe appropriate 'clearing' time before sending the item.


Actually, I requested the check to be sent to my address and I would have presented it to any bank. If the check was accepted, then the item would have been sent.

I want to believe that if a bank cashes a check in front of you, then it's their problem if it proves to be a fake once you've left the premises. Or rather, I think that they ask you for a 2-3 day delay to check before they forward the cash. And again, I think that's valid for bigger amounts than one grand.

Then again, it's been such a long time I had to deal with checks (especially from abroad), I work with e-banking now, I might be mistaken.
Author:  dhalem [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wire Fraud....be careful
There are even worse versions I've read about that involve 3 parties. A badguy lists an expensive item like a car on eBay motors. He finds a buyer. Then he finds a watch for sale at the same price. The badguy makes a deal with the seller for the watch and gets the wire details for the watch seller and forwards them to the car buyer. The car buyer sends the wire to the watch seller, and the watch seller ships the watch to the badguy.

Of course the badguy never delivers the cars and now has a high-value and relatively liquid and hard to trace asset.
Author:  sharkman [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wire Fraud....be careful
dhalem wrote:
There are even worse versions I've read about that involve 3 parties. A badguy lists an expensive item like a car on eBay motors. He finds a buyer. Then he finds a watch for sale at the same price. The badguy makes a deal with the seller for the watch and gets the wire details for the watch seller and forwards them to the car buyer. The car buyer sends the wire to the watch seller, and the watch seller ships the watch to the badguy.

Of course the badguy never delivers the cars and now has a high-value and relatively liquid and hard to trace asset.



Wow! Now that's a good one. Buy the seller, not the watch. Know you buyer. Get references. Research feedback.

I don't do ebay, it confuses my brain. I think I'll keep it that way.
Author:  F14D_Tomcat [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wire Fraud....be careful
sharkman wrote:
I don't do ebay. I think I'll keep it that way.


:yeahthat

+1
Author:  dhalem [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wire Fraud....be careful
eBay isn't actually that bad, at least as a buyer, since they more or less force sellers to accept paypal, which means you can use your credit card and have the recourse of a chargeback.

I've only done wires twice to buy watches, both times were to very reputable dealers. I prefer to use my credit card if I can so I can get the points and because of the protection it affords.

Buyer side scams are rarer but they do happen. Seller side scams seem most common.
Author:  F14D_Tomcat [ Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wire Fraud....be careful
dhalem wrote:
I prefer to use my credit card if I can so I can get the points and because of the protection it affords.


I agree with you on both counts.

Still, I prefer not to use e-bay, if I can help it. But maybe I'm too old-fashioned and conservative :)
Author:  RJRJRJ [ Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wire Fraud....be careful
F14D_Tomcat wrote:
mfserge wrote:
Wouldn't a cashier's check show up as immediately available in your account? A cashier 's check is similar to depositing cash. That is really unfortunate, I guess the lesson here is to make sure you understand what type of deposit was made into your account then allowmthe appropriate 'clearing' time before sending the item.


Actually, I requested the check to be sent to my address and I would have presented it to any bank. If the check was accepted, then the item would have been sent.

I want to believe that if a bank cashes a check in front of you, then it's their problem if it proves to be a fake once you've left the premises. Or rather, I think that they ask you for a 2-3 day delay to check before they forward the cash. And again, I think that's valid for bigger amounts than one grand.

Then again, it's been such a long time I had to deal with checks (especially from abroad), I work with e-banking now, I might be mistaken.


Not sure how it works in your neck of the woods, but that wouldnt work here. If somebody gives me a check/cashier's check, I can either take it to the bank that it was purchased from or take it to my own bank. If I take it to the issuing bank, they can cash it for me since they have direct access to the funds and can immediately confirm or deny the authenticity of the check. If I take it to my own bank, theyll cash it for me without any of that knowledge, but if the check is later returned, they would just debit my account for the funds.
Author:  F14D_Tomcat [ Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wire Fraud....be careful
RJRJRJ wrote:
F14D_Tomcat wrote:
mfserge wrote:
Wouldn't a cashier's check show up as immediately available in your account? A cashier 's check is similar to depositing cash. That is really unfortunate, I guess the lesson here is to make sure you understand what type of deposit was made into your account then allowmthe appropriate 'clearing' time before sending the item.


Actually, I requested the check to be sent to my address and I would have presented it to any bank. If the check was accepted, then the item would have been sent.

I want to believe that if a bank cashes a check in front of you, then it's their problem if it proves to be a fake once you've left the premises. Or rather, I think that they ask you for a 2-3 day delay to check before they forward the cash. And again, I think that's valid for bigger amounts than one grand.

Then again, it's been such a long time I had to deal with checks (especially from abroad), I work with e-banking now, I might be mistaken.


Not sure how it works in your neck of the woods, but that wouldnt work here. If somebody gives me a check/cashier's check, I can either take it to the bank that it was purchased from or take it to my own bank. If I take it to the issuing bank, they can cash it for me since they have direct access to the funds and can immediately confirm or deny the authenticity of the check. If I take it to my own bank, theyll cash it for me without any of that knowledge, but if the check is later returned, they would just debit my account for the funds.


:yeahthat

I think you're right RJ. That is why it's better to cash it at the issuing bank, if that is feasible (provided there is one at a location near you).
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