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 Post subject: Re: Osama DEAD!
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 12:21 pm 
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H2F wrote:
Drtymrtini wrote:
... you will never convince me that the the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians over the last decade, combined with the trillions of dollars spent on guns and bombs, was worth the price to "avenge" 3,000 dead Americans. The sheer amount of collateral damage left in the wake of finding Bin Laden is mind boggling.

It's like torching an entire forest to flush out a fox that's stealing your chickens.

The end doesn't justify the means.
Now you've lost me completely. Which "HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS" were killed as the price to avenge Ground Zero?? And who supposedly did all the killing??? Really???? :roll:

Does anyone actually believe that if only the US had stopped pursuing Bin Laden way back when, the world would be a better place today?? That NOT pursuing or provoking this terrorist will somehow stop him from continuing his acts of terror??? Come on!!

Osama was NOT the US' personal terrorist -- He was the WORLD's! Here in Indonesia, Bin Laden financed bombing which killed hundreds in Bali & Jakarta. Although the victims were mostly foreigners in Indonesia, the legacy of his act of terror is very much felt by every single one of the Indonesian people who now have to go through vehicle searches, metal detectors, and bag/purse checks, that since the bombing has become the mandatory security procedures of every shopping centres, office buildings, and hotels in every major cities in Indonesia -- up to today with no end in sight! And nope, being the world's LARGEST Muslim country who never did do anything to Osama made zero difference.

Personally, I THANK GOD the US has the resources, the means, the will power, the guts, and the perseverence to pursue this animal!


Hallelujah to your last phrase.

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 Post subject: Re: Osama DEAD!
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:40 pm 
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H2F wrote:
Now you've lost me completely. Which "HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS" were killed as the price to avenge Ground Zero?? And who supposedly did all the killing??? Really???? :roll:

...Personally, I THANK GOD the US has the resources, the means, the will power, the guts, and the perseverence to pursue this animal!


Now you're just showing how naive you really are. HUNDREDS of thousands of innocent Iraqi and Afghani citizens have been killed and injured by U.S. and NATO bullets and bombs over the past 10 years. 9/11 was used constantly as a reason to invade Iraq and GW Bush tried to link Sadam to Bin Laden? That little war in Afghanistan has been fueled through the threat of Al Qada and we're there to wipe out their camps and breeding grounds in the country.

And the U.S. doesn't have the "will power, the guts, and the perseverence." We just have really big sticks and it's not hard to get your way when your guns are much bigger than your enemy's.

These wars that WE started have killed MANY more innocent people than Bin Laden ever would have. A few religious extremists carried out attacks against the U.S. We weren't attacked by a country - we were attacked by a few guys who were not government representatives - but they were smart enough to figure out how to get through our defenses.

This type of chest thumping and mindless bravado makes me want to vomit.

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 Post subject: Re: Osama DEAD!
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:53 pm 
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One thing is clear - 100% clear and undisputable! There are diametrically opposed views on this subject and this thread will never change that or produce any concurrence of views.

Whether we are prone to believe on the one hand the US likes to pick up the sword or on the other that it was necessary and inevitable, the tenor and rhetoric here has slowly amped up to personal attacks.

This thread is pointless - leave it to CNN, Fox, and MSNBC bloggers. They live to yell at each other and call each other names.

This is a watch forum. At least we can put down the swords even if our governments are unable or unwilling.

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 Post subject: Re: Osama DEAD!
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 2:14 pm 
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sharkman wrote:
One thing is clear - 100% clear and undisputable! There are diametrically opposed views on this subject and this thread will never change that or produce any concurrence of views.

Whether we are prone to believe on the one hand the US likes to pick up the sword or on the other that it was necessary and inevitable, the tenor and rhetoric here has slowly amped up to personal attacks.

This thread is pointless - leave it to CNN, Fox, and MSNBC bloggers. They live to yell at each other and call each other names.

This is a watch forum. At least we can put down the swords even if our governments are unable or unwilling.

:yeahthat

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 Post subject: Re: Osama DEAD!
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 2:26 pm 
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sharkman wrote:
This is a watch forum. At least we can put down the swords even if our governments are unable or unwilling.


This thread is in the "off-topic discussion - Discussions on stuff not related to watches"

I don't think the argument here is whether or not we should have hunted down Bin Laden and killed him. My argument is that Yes, we should have. But there are other alternatives than blowing up entire countries to find just a few people.

When the Israelis hunted down the last few terrorists that perpetrated the Massacre in Munich at the 1972 Olympics - now that was some serious smarts and they didn't have to blow up half of Pakistan and kill and injure thousands of civilians to avenge those who died.

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 Post subject: Re: Osama DEAD!
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 2:38 pm 
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I'm staying well and truly out of this discussion, but in terms of the thread itself, all I will say is let's keep it civil please guys (as it pretty much has been to date). This is an Off Topic discussion in the right forum, so there's no need to lock it down (yet!), and while there are clearly some very different views in evidence on this topic, I'm just going to pre-empt things and ask that we keep it mature and professional and not stoop to name-calling please. The discussion is currently fine (IMO), but let's remember that no hearts or minds are likely to be changed no matter how long this thread goes on..........

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 Post subject: Re: Osama DEAD!
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 2:51 pm 
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Drtymrtini , I wasn't questioning whether this thread is against the rules, I was speaking to the increasingly personal comments and just suggesting both sides might be better served just letting it go since everything that could be said has been said. Just a suggestion seemingly falling in deaf ears.

A farmer had a dog. A salesman stopped by the farm and the dog just sat there howling. After talking a bit with the farmer, the salesmen felt compelled to ask, "why is that dog howling?" The farmer replied, "well see, he is sitting on a nail." The salesman scratched his jaw and asked, "why doesn't he just stand up?" Said the farmer, "He ain't done howling yet."

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 Post subject: Re: Osama DEAD!
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 2:55 pm 
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sharkman wrote:
I was speaking to the increasingly personal comments
Agreed.

sharkman wrote:
....and just suggesting both sides might be better served just letting it go since everything that could be said has been said.
Possibly not a bad idea.

sharkman wrote:
Just a suggestion seemingly falling in deaf ears.
Don't worry Shark, you'll get used to it! I know I have! :wink: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Osama DEAD!
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:11 pm 
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sharkman wrote:
Drtymrtini , I wasn't questioning whether this thread is against the rules, I was speaking to the increasingly personal comments and just suggesting both sides might be better served just letting it go since everything that could be said has been said. Just a suggestion seemingly falling in deaf ears.

A farmer had a dog. A salesman stopped by the farm and the dog just sat there howling. After talking a bit with the farmer, the salesmen felt compelled to ask, "why is that dog howling?" The farmer replied, "well see, he is sitting on a nail." The salesman scratched his jaw and asked, "why doesn't he just stand up?" Said the farmer, "He ain't done howling yet."


Thanks sharky, this thread has made me more and more pissed and I'm out. People will believe what they want so no ranting and raving from anyone will change that and it shouldn't in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Osama DEAD!
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:36 pm 
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Yeah, he's still dead, I'm still happy, so...

Last barb: can't imagine a scenario whereby I as ONE individual could possibly know better and second-guess with such conviction!, ALL the leaders and intelligence personnels and military leaders of my country??!!... and to actually believe that yup, the US killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians and essentially got away with it from the rest of the world!!???... :shock: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Happy to stay naive just so.

But I will get off the nail now... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Osama DEAD!
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:46 am 
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In discussion like this one, I've learned one thing: BY DEFINITION, it's the fault of the Americans. And, of course, we never say THANK YOU.

Still, we keep asking for their help. If we know, by definition, that they're gonna mess it up, why do we keep calling upon them? Personally, as European, I'm ashamed that we're not even capable of taking care of things happening just by our doorstep or in our garden.

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 Post subject: Re: Osama DEAD!
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:00 am 
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Driver8 wrote:
no hearts or minds are likely to be changed no matter how long this thread goes on..........


That is absolutely true D8 and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it because everyone is entitled to have his opinion, right for him, maybe wrong for others.

If I responded to this thread it's only because I find it inconceivable not to be grateful to the few that gave, and give, their lives for the freedom of the many. Freedom that many use to stub them in the back in return.

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 Post subject: Re: Osama DEAD!
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:04 am 
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F14D_Tomcat wrote:
Driver8 wrote:
no hearts or minds are likely to be changed no matter how long this thread goes on..........


That is absolutely true D8 and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it because everyone is entitled to have his opinion, right for him, maybe wrong for others.

If I responded to this thread it's only because I find it inconceivable not to be grateful to the few that gave, and give, their lives for the freedom of the many. Freedom that many use to stub them in the back in return.

No-one has any problem with anybody commenting on this, or indeed any other, thread on here (provided we avoid name calling of course, but that goes for the rest of the forum anyway). Freedom of speech and freedom of opinion is alive and well here. All I'm saying is that this thread is probably one of the most emotive threads we've had in a long time, and people tend to feel extremely strongly one way or the other, so no-one should be under any illusions that anyone's point of view or opinions will be changed. With that in mind people will disagree, so for the sake of "forum harmony", let's all just bear that in mind. :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Osama DEAD!
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:52 am 
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Hmmmm. I wonder if my JLC Navy Seal watch has gone up in value now?

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 Post subject: Re: Osama DEAD!
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:09 pm 
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mfserge wrote:
Hmmmm. I wonder if my JLC Navy Seal watch has gone up in value now?

:D Not bad! :D

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