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Breanach78

A Few Breitlings.

...which is why I have started buying Certified Pre-owned BMWs. Lexuses don't have as many problems on average, but I just haven't ever warmed to them, and the maintenence is still expensive. My wife's BMW was bought CPO with the warrranty to 6 years/100K miles from in-service, and for a little under $2K we got maintenence covered to match. I finally said goodbye to my beloved Jag on Friday for a CPO 135i. With college starting for one child, fixed expenses have become quite appealing, plus there's that engine. At the four-year in-service mark I will extend the maintenence on this one as well. Of course you pay for it at some level, but you know what's ahead of you. And what a fun little car.

7-series cars have always exhibited the reach of BMW's technical abilities, which in several cases has exceeded its grasp. Of all the Bimmers, the 7 seems to have been the most prone to problems, and surprisingly far more than my old Jag. I think it is best to stick to 5s and 3s, and the simpler the better.

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Scott

AP Royal Oak 15400, silver
Zenith Chronomaster El Primero Classic Cars
Vintage gold Corum
Rolex DJ 36 TT, oyster dial, oyster/smooth
Baume & Mercier Riviera 200m, silver dial/aquamarine bezel
Breitling Superocean 57, rose/stainless

I'd probably agree with that. I had a 7 Series a few years ago, and literally on the very day I agreed to trade it in, I was driving home from the dealership and the dashboard lit up like a Christmas tree! Before that I had pixels drop out on the TV, and a couple of other electrical issues. Electrical gremlins definitely can creep into the super-complex 7's over time, but they are absolutely fantastic cars all the same. In contrast I've had very few issues (electrical or otherwise) with my 3's or 5's.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

Surely better than a Toyota. Even if it is an upgraded Toyota, it's still a Toyota.

I don't think that BMW had to recall "some" thousands of models because of problems. Even if some BMW had their problems, it's the price you sometimes pay for being a pioneer. A leader, not a follower.

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

1 series seat belts anyone?

In hundred of thousands?

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

Over 35,000 I believe.

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Breanach78

A Few Breitlings.

Yep and the quote that I replied to was "I don't think that BMW had to recall "some" thousands" - changing the goal posts to hundreds of thousands is a bit dramatic.

That's not even close the Toyota figures. Which ARE dramatic.

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

I don't think that anyone claimed that they were.

However.......

October 2010 - 130,000 twin turbo 3.5s (various models) were recalled for replacement of the fuel pump
October 2010 - 20,800 X5s for replacement of the fuel pump
October 2010 - 350,000 5, 6 and 7 series (plus some Rolls Royces) were recalled for faulty brakes in V8 and V12 engined cars from 2001 - 2009

Does half a million cars in one month count as dramatic?

Well, if you go THAT back, I'll have to find sometime to make a Toyota list, probably will fill out a whole page.

And if you consider it dramatic, how come you were considering a 3.5is Z4? Aren't you afraid of its fuel pump?

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

No reason to be concerned about the fuel pump - they've fixed the problem as of 7 months ago

I'm not suggesting that BMW is 'worse' than Toyota at recalls - I am merely taking issue with your statement that BMW didn't have thousands of recalls and with your restated statement that BMW didn't have hundreds of thousands of recalls.

I get the fact that you like BMW more than the average guy, but both of those statements are clearly untrue.

All industries involving a machine experience recalls, whether it is cars, aircraft or dishwashers. Some have more than others.

And I surely do not trust a company that changes the name of a specific model range (or ranges) because they know that it won't sell otherwise, except maybe in the US.

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

Well Roff, as promised, here’s the list of Toyota recalls. I only went as far back as 2007, otherwise the list would have been much longer. I’m not even sure that the list is complete but it gives you a comparative idea between Toyota and BMW, although I never suggested that you implied that BMW is worse than Toyota. It just sets the record straight.

• Sep 26, 2007 – US: 55,000 Camry and ES 350 cars in "all-weather" floor mat recall.
• Nov 02, 2009 – US: 3.8 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles again recalled due to floor mat problem, this time for all driver's side mats.
• Nov 26, 2009 – US: floor mat recall amended to include brake override and increased to 4.2 million vehicles.
• Jan 21, 2010 – US: 2.3 million Toyota vehicles recalled due to faulty accelerator pedals
• Jan 27, 2010 – US: 1.1 million Toyotas added to amended floor mat recall.
• Jan 29, 2010 – Europe, China: 1.8 million Toyotas added to faulty accelerator pedal recall.
• Feb 08, 2010 – Worldwide: 436,000 hybrid vehicles in brake recall following 200 reports of Prius brake glitches.
• Feb 08, 2010 – US: 7,300 MY 2010 Camry vehicles recalled over potential brake tube problems.
• Feb 12, 2010 – US: 8,000 MY 2010 4WD Tacoma pick-up trucks recalled over concerns about possible defective front drive shafts.
• Apr 16, 2010 – US: 600,000 MY 1998–2010 Sienna minivans for possible corrosion of spare tire carrier cable.
• Apr 19, 2010 – World: 21,000 MY 2010 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado and 13,000 Lexus GX 460 SUV's recalled to reprogram the stability control system.
• Apr 28, 2010 – US: 50,000 MY 2003 Toyota Sequoia recalled to reprogram the stability control system.
• May 21, 2010 – Japan: 4,509, US: 7,000 MY 2010 LS for steering system software update
• July 5, 2010 – World: 270,000 Crown and Lexus models for valve springs with potential production issue.
• July 29, 2010 – US: 412,000 Avalons and LX 470s for replacement of steering column components.
• August 28, 2010 – US & Canada: approximately 1.13 million Corolla and Corolla Matrix vehicles produced between 2005 and 2008 for Engine Control Modules (ECM) that may have been improperly manufactured.
• February 22, 2011 – US: Toyota recalls an additional 2.17 million vehicles for gas pedals that become trapped on floor hardware.

Models recalled include:

• MY 2005–2010 Toyota Avalon
• MY 2007–2010 Toyota Camry
• MY 2009–2010 Toyota Corolla
• MY 2008–2010 Toyota Highlander
• MY 2009–2010 Toyota Matrix
• MY 2004–2010 Toyota Prius
• MY 2005–2010 Toyota Tacoma
• MY 2007–2010 Toyota Tundra
• MY 2009–2010 Toyota Venza
• MY 2006–2010 Lexus IS 250/HS 250h/IS 350
• MY 2009–2010 Toyota RAV4
• MY 2008–2010 Toyota Sequoia
• MY 2005 – 2009 Toyota Aygo
• MY 2008 – 2009 Toyota iQ
• MY 2005 – 2009 Toyota Yaris
• MY 2006 – 2010 Toyota Auris
• MY 2009 – 2010 Toyota Verso
• MY 2008 – 2009 Toyota Avensis
• MY 2008 – 2009 Toyota Sai

If I counted correctly that’s a total of 14’583’809. Quite a way from the 500’000 you mentioned on BMW. Maybe I should have mentioned MILLIONS as dramatic in my quote, not thousands.

The fact that most recalls concern the US market may indicate that the problem is more important in US-manufactured Toyotas.

And, yes, I tend to (over)react when BMW is attacked. Nobody’s perfect.

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

Apparently my English has completely failed me in this thread, so let me try again.

1) I never attacked BMW
2) I never defended Toyota
3) I never made a comparison between BMW recalls and Toyota recalls

What I did do was take issues with two statements that you made:

1) "I don't think that BMW had to recall "some" thousands of models because of problems"
2) "In hundred of thousands?" (referring again to recalls)

Both of those statements are false and I demonstrated that with facts.

Anyone who has been on this forum for more than five minutes knows that you are a fan of BMW - post after post after post is about how wonderful they are, and you are fully entitled to those opinions whether others agree or disagree.

In this thread though you were trying to rewrite history and that is the only thing that I took issue with.

Personally I really don't care what you think of BMW, Toyota, or any other car company.