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Who is right about Two Tone Chronamats
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Author:  AlphabetABC [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Who is right about Two Tone Chronamats
Elsewhere in this Forum Blingadam had asked about what gold is used in the TT chronomats, relpies to this had lots of us worried that we had been "had" by Breitling, because we felt we had brought into solid Gold features not rolled or plated Gold watches, So as I am in the process of buying a TT, I was especially concerned about paying 11k for a partiically gold plated watch.
So today I went to my AD who happened to have a BREITLING person in store, The knowlegable manager there was sure that the likes of Breitling, Omega and Rolex use solid gold where they use gold parts in the watch manufacture, but the manager asked the Breitling Lady in store to re-assured me that no rolled or plated gold is used in the Chronomat...... only 18ct Solid Gold by Breitling in their watches. So I hope this assures all TT owners or Potential purchasers of TT's that they will be getting what they are paying the extra for..... 18ct solid gold features. :lingsrock:
Author:  BroncoSport [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is right about Two Tone Chronamats
I can tell you that in the case of the Starliner (2008 model) TT, the rider tabs, markers and such are solid... BUT the TT links in the bracelet are ROLLED ( my wife has one and I visually confirmed this). This is easily confirmed by looing at the sides of the "gold" linkswhen flexing the bracelet. This topic has come up numerous times and I thought that it was discovered that only the solid gold Breitlings had solid gold bracelet links, case and all. All other models that were TT, had only some solid acents but the bracelet links were all rolled over stainless steel (for strength).

Scott
Author:  BoneDoc [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is right about Two Tone Chronamats
BroncoSport wrote:
I can tell you that in the case of the Starliner (2008 model) TT, the rider tabs, markers and such are solid... BUT the TT links in the bracelet are ROLLED ( my wife has one and I visually confirmed this). This is easily confirmed by looing at the sides of the "gold" linkswhen flexing the bracelet. This topic has come up numerous times and I thought that it was discovered that only the solid gold Breitlings had solid gold bracelet links, case and all. All other models that were TT, had only some solid acents but the bracelet links were all rolled over stainless steel (for strength).

Scott

:yeahthat Bronco is right.
Author:  Roffensian [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is right about Two Tone Chronamats
As BroncoSport says - just look at the bracelet, it's easy to tell.

Riders are always solid gold (although we are talking 18K, so only .750). Bezels are also solid on TTs that have gold bezels rather than steel. Pushers and crowns are rolled gold for strength.
Author:  krlyuzh [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is right about Two Tone Chronamats
The rider tabs and bezels are solid gold. If you have an all gold piece, it is also SOLID gold. The case and the bracelet. When you are considering a two tone Breitling it is neither solid nor plated or rolled. Breitling uses a sheet of gold that is wraped around a steel piece. This process IS different from rolled gold (gold filled) which is a process where a VERY thin strip of solid gold is fused to a base layer, normally of brass. If you 'bend' a bracelet and look at it from the side, you will the a rather thick (MUCH thicker (approx .4mm) than plated which is usually to 20 microns or 0.02 millimeter).
Author:  ianmedium [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is right about Two Tone Chronamats
AlphabetABC wrote:
Elsewhere in this Forum Blingadam had asked about what gold is used in the TT chronomats, relpies to this had lots of us worried that we had been "had" by Breitling, because we felt we had brought into solid Gold features not rolled or plated Gold watches, So as I am in the process of buying a TT, I was especially concerned about paying 11k for a partiically gold plated watch.
So today I went to my AD who happened to have a BREITLING person in store, The knowlegable manager there was sure that the likes of Breitling, Omega and Rolex use solid gold where they use gold parts in the watch manufacture, but the manager asked the Breitling Lady in store to re-assured me that no rolled or plated gold is used in the Chronomat...... only 18ct Solid Gold by Breitling in their watches. So I hope this assures all TT owners or Potential purchasers of TT's that they will be getting what they are paying the extra for..... 18ct solid gold features. :lingsrock:


I stand by what I said in my post about your particular watch though, the only parts that are solid gold are the rider tabs. the rest is rolled, I double checked when I was in my AD the other day.
Author:  Roffensian [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is right about Two Tone Chronamats
krlyuzh wrote:
The rider tabs and bezels are solid gold. If you have an all gold piece, it is also SOLID gold. The case and the bracelet. When you are considering a two tone Breitling it is neither solid nor plated or rolled. Breitling uses a sheet of gold that is wraped around a steel piece. This process IS different from rolled gold (gold filled) which is a process where a VERY thin strip of solid gold is fused to a base layer, normally of brass. If you 'bend' a bracelet and look at it from the side, you will the a rather thick (MUCH thicker (approx .4mm) than plated which is usually to 20 microns or 0.02 millimeter).


Rolled gold refers to the process of laminating gold sheets over a base metal. The metal in question and the thickness of the sheet is irrelevant. The true distinction is that it's laminating of sheets rather than at a molecular level as in plating. As you say, Breitling's treatment is 20 microns thick.

Gold filled, which will be a familiar term to anyone interested in older timepieces is really just a popular culture reference to a gold filled treatment applied to both sides of a sheet of base metal - it's almost interchangeable with rolled gold.
Author:  AlphabetABC [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is right about Two Tone Chronamats
There is still confusion over the Chronomat TT gold bracelet, pushers and crown. I am still concerned especially if i am going to buy one any day now. So Icalled the Breitling office in London. I was told that the older models were capped gold but all modern Chronomats are solid gold where applicable. she did say something about the Cockpit being plated /rolled gold though. hope this is clarifying things a bit
Author:  Roffensian [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is right about Two Tone Chronamats
AlphabetABC wrote:
There is still confusion over the Chronomat TT gold bracelet, pushers and crown. I am still concerned especially if i am going to buy one any day now. So Icalled the Breitling office in London. I was told that the older models were capped gold but all modern Chronomats are solid gold where applicable. she did say something about the Cockpit being plated /rolled gold though. hope this is clarifying things a bit


I don't know why there is confusion, it's pretty clear.

The only person who has told you that on a two tone model the bracelet crown and pushers are solid gold is the sales assistant you spoke to.

Well, they aren't!!!!!

If you don't believe me, then go take a look at a bracelet. From the side view you will clearly see that the gold is a thin (20 microns to be precise) layer of gold over a steel core.

You can't check the crown and pushers so easily, but hopefully the bracelet will demonstrate the point.
Author:  rebnah [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is right about Two Tone Chronamats
As long as my bezel is solid im happy!
Would be nice for the pushers to be solid but you can't have everything.

Thanks for the information guys.
Author:  ianmedium [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is right about Two Tone Chronamats
And just to back Roff, I went on purpose today to the AD and looked at a TT chronomat. The links that were Gold are indeed a thin layer of gold rapped around a solid layer of steel identical to my friends cockpit, it really is very clear to see.

I made sure it was a chronomat and not any other though the AD told me that all TT bracelets are the same as there would be a severe problem with the SS wearing away the soft gold. It really is very easy to see the layer, now this is a rough guess but I would say at the most it is a 1/4 to 1/2mm thick.

I think whoever is your sales person/s they need to have an better education in their product!
here is a picture of the bracelet, if you look carefully you can see the steel core and gold cladding!
Image
hope that helps!

Just to add, as far as I can see a solid 18k pilot bracelet retails $18,000 US,a TT is $2750 and SS $1,300
I think the math will back up the layer over solid agrument!
Author:  ianmedium [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is right about Two Tone Chronamats
rebnah wrote:
As long as my bezel is solid im happy!
Would be nice for the pushers to be solid but you can't have everything.

Thanks for the information guys.


Yep, your bezel is solid! the one the other poster has it is just the rider tabs
Author:  AlphabetABC [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is right about Two Tone Chronamats
Hi Ian and Roff. Hey guys, I am not an expert on this matter, I'm only concerned that for £11,450 ($17.050) that I will be getting what I expected in this watch.... ie Solid Gold. and to add pressure to my decision, the watch is now in at my AD ready for me to pick up.

I think you both have mis-read my last post. I got the info that Chronos are now solid 18ct gold from BREITLING's British Office not my local AD, Breitling told me that yes the older Chrono's were gold plated but the new models are not, they are solid gold. As I said earlier I am not an expert and hope you can understand the cost implication of me spending this amount of money on a gold plated watch, that may be after a few years of wear and a re-buff or two on it, (which it will enevitably need in it's life) the gold will not last and will gradually come off.
Author:  AlphabetABC [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is right about Two Tone Chronamats
Hi again Ian. i just re-read your post about the costs for the gold V TT bracelet. I was also given two prices Direct from Breitling as a comparision.
the Crown in SS costs £17 but for the TT model it costs £120......... a massive 7 times more. I dont think gold plating on a winder knob would cost that much some how, but solid gold might do.?
surely BREITLING should know what they make their watches from, or I am missing something?
Author:  ianmedium [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is right about Two Tone Chronamats
AlphabetABC wrote:
Hi Ian and Roff. Hey guys, I am not an expert on this matter, I'm only concerned that for £11,450 ($17.050) that I will be getting what I expected in this watch.... ie Solid Gold. and to add pressure to my decision, the watch is now in at my AD ready for me to pick up.

I think you both have mis-read my last post. I got the info that Chronos are now solid 18ct gold from BREITLING's British Office not my local AD, Breitling told me that yes the older Chrono's were gold plated but the new models are not, they are solid gold. As I said earlier I am not an expert and hope you can understand the cost implication of me spending this amount of money on a gold plated watch, that may be after a few years of wear and a re-buff or two on it, (which it will enevitably need in it's life) the gold will not last and will gradually come off.


Totaly understand and that is why we are trying to help you form an educated purchse. I have seen the new(well not obviously the b1) chronomat today, they do not differ from region to region on these matters and it was clearly as roff and I have said, in fact the only difference apparently between the pilot TT on cockpit and chronomat is size 20mm on the cockpit and 22 on the chronmat.
I really hate that you are being misinformed by both your ad and Breitling UK, as I say I saw the evidence in the flesh today! it is just as my picture in the last post. when you factor in the cost of a soild 18k bracelet and think about it a solid TT bracelt would be more in the ball park of $10,000 on its own, I think a great deal of the extra cost you are absorbing is to do with all those lovely diamonds on the bezel!

I could see that kind of difference on the winder knob, I would imagine it would be quite the proccess to add a layer of rolled gold to one compared to just moulding or machining the ss one
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