Interesting indeed. It would also explain why IWC are so expensive.
Obviously I was just being concise and using laymans terms earlier....!
Wasn't there another thread on this forum regarding Breitling as a Manufacture?
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| How does Breitling mod the Breitling 17 movement? https://www.breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7393 |
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| Author: | mrbreitling [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | How does Breitling mod the Breitling 17 movement? |
Just curious what kind of mods Breitling performs on the pretty standard ETA movement. |
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| Author: | Nighthawk_fn3 [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How does Breitling mod the Breitling 17 movement? |
would be nice to see hi-res pics of the insides of our watches. |
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| Author: | 1952 [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How does Breitling mod the Breitling 17 movement? |
I would've thought that they just add decorated bridges, the datewheel and rotor. Reassemble the top grade cosc movement |
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| Author: | Driver8 [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How does Breitling mod the Breitling 17 movement? |
This is something I'd be very interested in knowing as opinions definitely vary and I've never found a definitive list of what Breitling do. If they are anything like IWC, the modifications could be a lot more extensive than that suggested by 1952. Quite a while ago I found an interesting article on watchtalkforums regarding IWC's modification of the Valjoux 7750 that they use in a number of their watches and I quote a section of it here (Credit for this section in italics goes to Scott D on watchtalkforums for this excellent information, although looking around on the net, this article has appeared a number of times, allegedly by a number of different people. All I can say is that these are NOT my words and by posting it here I am in no way attempting to plagiarise them! Phew....) - "IWC purchases the best serial engine and undertakes on that basis the best possible engine tuning. You could say that IWC does what AMG does with Mercedes engines, Alpina with BMW or Abt with VW or Audi engines. Serial engines are used, which in turn are tuned and optimized with the best experience available. In the case of the Valjoux, the calibre is only bought in its components, never ready assembled. In addition, only the best possible version is purchased - the so-called Chronometer version. When the components arrive in Schaffhausen (IWC's factory location) there are first of all checked by eye, and then randomly checked in detail. Some components of the original ETA calibre are immediately eliminated and are never used by IWC. They are replaced by usually more expensive and better ones. The entire escapement is a good example. It is ordered separately with different, more exact technical IWC specifications and is only fitted into the calibre at the end of the assembly. Some changes take place even earlier: For instance, all metal bearings of the Valjoux 7760 are replaced by jewel bearings - the Valjoux 7760 (same as the 7750 but in the handwound version) is the basis for the Portugieser Chronograph movements. There is an IWC expert whose job it is to extract by hand all metal bearings from the supplied calibre and replace them with the more expensive jeweled bearings. This is an effort, which will ultimately significantly increase the longevity of the movement. This exercise is futile in the version 7750 as it only comes with jewels. Instead numerous cogwheels are replaced. For instance, one is part of the winding mechanism, which ETA supplies with three holes in order that it can be worked on by machines and be transported by robot arms. As the holes are drilled, there is some metal, which is pushed over the surface - causing friction with the above-located bridge. Now IWC found out that it is precisely the position of these holes, which will cause fine metallic debris over time to accumulate. In the short run, such metallic debris is not a problem, however over a longer period such debris will cause problems. Many more examples could be listed at this point, reaching far beyond the space allocated for this article. Therefore, let's come back to the escapement of the movement. Before the escapement is fitted into the movement, a specially trained, female horological expert (so-called regleuse) checks each hairspring for unevenness. How does she do it? Quite simple, she holds the escapement with a special device and turns it. Then she makes sure with her magnifying glass than the escapement unfolds in concentric circles. If not, she manually bends the hairspring to perfection. Again, this in an effort of which the value is only apparent in the sum of all efforts and is ultimately reflected in the accuracy of the movement. The pinnacle of all these tuning efforts lies in completely replacing the barrel. There are some many changes and modifications to the calibre 7750 leading to far lower power requirements of the movement. As a result the original ETA barrel is now far too strong for the modified IWC movement. A "weaker" IWC barrel brings about significant advantages. All moving parts suffer far less wear and tear because there are exposed to far smaller forces - again, this significantly prolongs the average life of an IWC movement. It is not exaggerated if IWC makes the statement that it treats the ETA movements as if it were an original IWC movement. The numerous modifications and the great care, completely transform the original, mass-produced movement by ETA into another movement. ETA is not necessarily ETA as it is often falsely stated. Interesting stuff, I think you'll agree. My gut feel would be that Breitling maybe do not do quite as much as IWC, but maybe someone with contacts at Breitling could pose the question to them? (hint, hint) I'd LOVE a definitive description of what they do. |
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| Author: | 1952 [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How does Breitling mod the Breitling 17 movement? |
Interesting indeed. It would also explain why IWC are so expensive. Obviously I was just being concise and using laymans terms earlier....! Wasn't there another thread on this forum regarding Breitling as a Manufacture? |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How does Breitling mod the Breitling 17 movement? |
Based on conversations that I have had (though don't have independent confirmation) the IWC example is a good basis. Breitling definitely buy ebauches (kits, not assembled movements). The cessation of supplies of ebauche is what's driving the reported move to a Manufacture. As I understand it Breitling will then inspect and test certain parts for tolerances to ensure that they meet Breitling standards (there are three grades of movements and Breitling buys the highest which is designed to be COSC capable). Similar to IWC some pieces are replaced as a matter of course. They also then provide decorated bridges and rotors - I believe, but don't know for sure, that the ebauche pieces are just swapped out - that would make the most sense. Additionally, with a calibre like the ETA 2892-A2 that is modular in nature, the additional complications are added. |
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| Author: | Nighthawk_fn3 [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How does Breitling mod the Breitling 17 movement? |
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| Author: | alex** [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How does Breitling mod the Breitling 17 movement? |
what do you guys think, when Breitling goes in house do you think existing models with non in house movements will devalue? |
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| Author: | Nighthawk_fn3 [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How does Breitling mod the Breitling 17 movement? |
Depends on the quality of the in-house movement, if it's rubish the eta movement based will rise I guess. the 7750 was improved since 1975. Might be hard to top that. |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How does Breitling mod the Breitling 17 movement? |
The ETA and Valjoux movements will be worth less than in house, because they will cost less up front, but I don't think that they'll be devalued. Also remember, in house still means a lot of externally produced parts, just not an ebauche starting point. |
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