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PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:24 pm 
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Breitling is definitely less popular.. everyone and their dogs wants a Rolex (can't blame them, Rolex makes beautiful quality pieces for the MSRP price) but I buy what I like and still gravitate towards Breitling's aesthetics and build quality.Image

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:40 am 
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Unpopular? Really? Why the 2nd hand market prices are not so low then? Unpopular? Hmm...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:14 am 
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op was posted by a troll/scammer with a copy/paste from another forum. safely disregard.
Breitling just finishes it’s best year ever financially.
is Rolex bigger and more widely known? you bet.
but many other brands would kill for being as “unpopular” and as profitable as Breitling.



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:20 am 
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WatchFred wrote:
Breitling just finishes it’s best year ever financially....

...many other brands would kill for being as “unpopular” and as profitable as Breitling.

:thumbsup: That's excellent news on the financial front Fred! At the end of the day, money talks, and sound financials are obviously one of the major barometers of success, so this clearly shows Breitling are doing more than a couple of things right these days! :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:20 pm 
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Driver8 wrote:
WatchFred wrote:
Breitling just finishes it’s best year ever financially....

...many other brands would kill for being as “unpopular” and as profitable as Breitling.

:thumbsup: That's excellent news on the financial front Fred! At the end of the day, money talks, and sound financials are obviously one of the major barometers of success, so this clearly shows Breitling are doing more than a couple of things right these days! :wink:


Although sound financials may be a barometer of a brands success, it may not transfer to the watch consumer. As Breitling HQ sells more and more watches, Georges and his staff will obviously be thrilled, but the consumer will only benefit if new customers are purchasing all of them. Although I am sure that there are new customers out there, the secondary market indicates that the Breitling brand is somewhat weak with respect to value retention. Geroges and his staff may be happy that more watches are being sold, but the end consumer may not be thrilled when his LNIB Breitling fails to sell for 60% of MSRP less than six months after purchase!

Although I love what Georges and his staff are doing, I believe that they have done nothing to remedy the weak resale value of a Breitling watch. To address it would require a little more restraint in pushing watches out the door, and clamping down on dealers who supply the grey market. Unfortunately none of this is going to happen because it would affect the bottom line. That is not something that you want to do if you are looking to sell the company. I realize that this is a simplistic view of the situation but I truly feel that this area needs to be somehow addressed.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:11 pm 
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I take your point Scoot, but the problem is that the "Rolex or Patek Experience" in terms of value retention just isn't something that can be built overnight, if at all.

The business model (and the realities of that business model) that Breitling and 99% of all other watchmakers out there are quite different to both Rolex's and Patek's. Breitling, along with pretty much every other mass production watchmaker, are all about (first and foremost) selling the most they can and making the most money possible. The supply and demand model can go one of two ways - you either sell a lot relatively cheaply (stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap), or you go the other way and sell a lot less but charge a serious premium for it. The fact is it's considerably easier to do the first than it is to do the latter, as the latter requires far more reliance on building a perception of rarity and exclusivity with the consumer. That takes many years to build, and Patek has perfected that by not making many pieces per year and making them to an exceptional level. Rolex have done it by essentially not straying from their design path for almost their entire history, and building their brand image exponentially. Plus both companies are privately owned, so their focus is somewhat different to the likes of Breitling.

The main reason for most companies wanting to make as much money as possible is shareholders, and the company doesn't make money from second-hand sales which means value retention is very much a secondary consideration. As you say, it's also very much worth remembering that Breitling's owners, CVC, are a private equity firm who's mission is, again, to make as much money as possible, and Georges (who owns a share of Breitling) said in a recent interview that at some point they will look to sell Breitling on. That's a very different business model than either Rolex or Patek...

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:00 pm 
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Good points.. in this case. You just buy Breitling and enjoy them as toys and not investments. Knowing what I know now I would have bargained more aggressively for a bigger discount when I bought my first ever time price(Breitling superocean). Have to admit the salesman was too good.. I walked away to think about it and returned 20 min later, and the look on the salesman's face was like "I knew you'd be back".

It doesn't hurt too much since I won't be selling my first ever luxury wrist watch any time soon.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:02 pm 
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Driver8 wrote:
I take your point Scoot, but the problem is that the "Rolex or Patek Experience" in terms of value retention just isn't something that can be built overnight, if at all.

The business model (and the realities of that business model) that Breitling and 99% of all other watchmakers out there are quite different to both Rolex's and Patek's. Breitling, along with pretty much every other mass production watchmaker, are all about (first and foremost) selling the most they can and making the most money possible. The supply and demand model can go one of two ways - you either sell a lot relatively cheaply (stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap), or you go the other way and sell a lot less but charge a serious premium for it. The fact is it's considerably easier to do the first than it is to do the latter, as the latter requires far more reliance on building a perception of rarity and exclusivity with the consumer. That takes many years to build, and Patek has perfected that by not making many pieces per year and making them to an exceptional level. Rolex have done it by essentially not straying from their design path for almost their entire history, and building their brand image exponentially. Plus both companies are privately owned, so their focus is somewhat different to the likes of Breitling.

The main reason for most companies wanting to make as much money as possible is shareholders, and the company doesn't make money from second-hand sales which means value retention is very much a secondary consideration. As you say, it's also very much worth remembering that Breitling's owners, CVC, are a private equity firm who's mission is, again, to make as much money as possible, and Georges (who owns a share of Breitling) said in a recent interview that at some point they will look to sell Breitling on. That's a very different business model than either Rolex or Patek...


Driver, I understand what you are saying and you are absolutely right. I have been a longtime Breitling enthusiast and was looking forward to see what the new "Breitling" would become. However, when you hear executives talk about how they want to improve the Breitling image and the "standing" within the watch community and how the brand is perceived you would think that they would reconsider the pump and dump mentality.



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:54 pm 
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let me tell you that countless hours of strategy meetings and considerable funds went into curbing grey market sales, AD have been cut drastically, a buyback program has been established to channel out of catalog models through the Breitling Outlet Boutiques and much more. No, there is no “pump and dump mentality” anymore, but none of these measures work overnight, of course.



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:57 am 
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Not sure if they’re unpopular but definitely not a grail piece. I feel like Breitling did really well in the early 2000’s when bigger dial pieces were al the rage. In the last few years it seems like bigger dials on smaller wrists are not as hyped.

Personally I still like the chronomat. I even own a chronomat evo with the ETA movement. The size though is seriously pushing it on my wrist.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:51 am 
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boogiebot wrote:
Not sure if they’re unpopular but definitely not a grail piece.


I kind of disagree. I think that a lot of men - who dont spend hours on watch forums or read watch magazines - want one nice watch. And at least in my experience, these people range Rolex, Omega, and Breitling more or less in the same class. They have never even heard about VC, Blancpain, Breguet, etc. So they pick their "grail piece" from what they know.



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:46 am 
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MrRoy wrote:
boogiebot wrote:
Not sure if they’re unpopular but definitely not a grail piece.


I kind of disagree. I think that a lot of men - who dont spend hours on watch forums or read watch magazines - want one nice watch. And at least in my experience, these people range Rolex, Omega, and Breitling more or less in the same class. They have never even heard about VC, Blancpain, Breguet, etc. So they pick their "grail piece" from what they know.


Well said MrRoy. Breitling will never be Patek or Rolex. When I think of Breitling, the closest thing I can think of is Omega and even their pieces tend to lose quite a bit on the secondary market and the greys are flooded with them at steep discounts as well, except for a few exceptions (Silver Snoopy is the first one I can think of).


WatchFred wrote:
let me tell you that countless hours of strategy meetings and considerable funds went into curbing grey market sales, AD have been cut drastically, a buyback program has been established to channel out of catalog models through the Breitling Outlet Boutiques and much more. No, there is no “pump and dump mentality” anymore, but none of these measures work overnight, of course.


Fred - are you able to share how much the AD network has gone down? Are there certain markets that were reduced more than others?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:18 pm 
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Justin, very different from market to market, overall some 25%


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:49 am 
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Breitling been unpopular is both false and true to an extent. It's popular amongst watch enthusiasts because we have a fondness for our watches and that moves us to search for the best out there, but for all others, it's not much of a name or brand. I bet almost everyone knows the brand name "Rolex" not as much as Breitling.
Maybe it results from brand management or superiority.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:01 pm 
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Jamie890 wrote:
Breitling been unpopular is both false and true to an extent. It's popular amongst watch enthusiasts because we have a fondness for our watches and that moves us to search for the best out there, but for all others, it's not much of a name or brand. I bet almost everyone knows the brand name "Rolex" not as much as Breitling.
Maybe it results from brand management or superiority.

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I disagree, Breitling in my opinion seems to be very popular amongst 'Non watch' enthusiasts, just stand by the window of any Breitling AD in UK/Europe for half an hour and you will see many people shopping for clothes, say, stuck with their noses to the window as they pass by all day long. Those of us 'in the know' love Breitling because it IS a brand with great history, the 'great unwashed' may not know the history but certainly gravitate to it's status as a great watch company with the same attraction, and asprinational desire as Omega or even Rolex IMHO.
There is a large chain close to me that has Breitling/Omega AD status and carries almost the whole range of Breitling watches, impressive, and a relatively small collection of Omega, a bit MEH IMO! No question here where my money would go on four or five if my numbers came up.
Have a look at the history & heritage of Breitling & their watches, starting with the founding father Leon Breitling up to the present day, fascinating wristwatch horlological history. One of the 'great' Swiss brands IMHO.


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