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Breitling second value list - In level with other brands
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Author:  London_Calling [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:53 am ]
Post subject:  Breitling second value list - In level with other brands
Watchfanatics,

I wonder if some of You could help me gather a list of how much a Breitling model decreases in value compared to other watches.

Im aware of that it depends on what model, year and condition it is but still.

According to an A.D here, Rolex has the best second value at the time.

So please, gather your own thoughts and write a list. This might help others aswell.

I know the list is based on your own opinions, but try write your list based on the 2000-now market.

Your list can be how short/long as you want. Just keep in mind that it should be professional and made by YOU!

My List
Rolex
Breitling
Omega
Author:  Driver8 [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:21 am ]
Post subject: 
Always a difficult subject this...... and this is only based on my own observations, knowledge and opinions. I've also avoided doing an actual list as I'd probably get it wildly wrong! (OK, that's the disclaimer done!)

Of the more "mainstream" luxury brands then Rolex is certainly right at the top..... no question.

Of the slightly less mainstream brands, Panerai also retain exceptional resale value - primarily due to the real cult following they enjoy and the fact that lots of models are limited edition. IWC and Zenith tend to fair pretty well as well...... IWC probably slightly more so.

AP, GP, Blancpain etc, all seem to retain value quite well too..... certainly better than the likes of Breitling.

Of course the very best resale values tend to sit with the very high end and limited edition pieces made by the likes of Patek Philippe, Lange & Sohne, Richard Mille, Roger Dubuis, etc. The rarity factor, along with the fact that they use lots of precious metals in the cases keep resale very high.

Of the more mainstream luxury brands, Breitling is probably very slightly better than Omega, but there's really not much in it. Tag is a long way down on the list as according to my AD there is very little interest in second hand Tags.

Small manufacturers like Graham allegedly suffer very badly on the second hand market, but all the ones I've seen are always still priced at ridiculous levels.

Corum's seem to drop quite heavily too - I saw a 2 year old mint condition skeleton movement Bubble the other day in a shop up for £1390 while original list was £3000!

Of course, for those of us who just like the watch, resale value is of no consequence as we never intend to sell them..... but I guess it's good to know what you would get in a sale if needs be.
Author:  Roffensian [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:25 am ]
Post subject: 
As Driver8 says this is complicated, and it is a little hard to try and make comparisons across vastly different brands.

I think that Breitling is climbin up the ladder simply because of the dramatic increase in popularity in the last few years - while Rolex make some great watches, resale value is driven in very large part by name recognition, and the same is happening to Breitling. In contrast I would suggest that Omega is dropping for the same reason.

I definitely wouldn't put Breitling that close to Rolex just yet, and would put the larger names that Driver8 mentioned (Panerai, IWC, Zenith) inbetween.
Author:  peezie [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:37 am ]
Post subject: 
I had a discussion about what he took in as trades last summer. Very interesting. He is (probably) the area's largest Breitling dealer, and does not take them in as trade. Only Rolex and Panerai, along with AP. I realize this doesn't reflect the aftermarket, but it tells me one of two things:

Initial discounts on Breitling are enough to not need to stock the cases with used products OR it's so saturated that it has little appeal. There's no (perceived) exclusivity. Dealers take in trades they feel they can sell profitably again. The fact he does not take Breitling in reinforces my position that initial first time customer discounts are too high (full disclosure--my first timer discount was 30%).

I'm sure he'll ride the Panerai wave until it subsides, and Rolex has everyone in a trance as far as perceived value. AP simply is exclusive and expensive.
Author:  Driver8 [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:09 am ]
Post subject: 
peezie wrote:
The fact he does not take Breitling in reinforces my position that initial first time customer discounts are too high.

I'd agree 100% in the case of the US market.

Here in the UK where discounting isn't so ludicrous I know of at least 2 AD's local to me who will happily give great prices on trade-in Breitlings, but won't touch the likes of Tag. I really do agree with you that in the US the crazy discounts are actually bad for the Breitling brand.
Author:  peezie [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:14 am ]
Post subject: 
Driver8 wrote:
peezie wrote:
The fact he does not take Breitling in reinforces my position that initial first time customer discounts are too high.

I'd agree 100% in the case of the US market.

Here in the UK where discounting isn't so ludicrous I know of at least 2 AD's local to me who will happily give great prices on trade-in Breitlings, but won't touch the likes of Tag. I really do agree with you that in the US the crazy discounts are actually bad for the Breitling brand.


I never really put two and two together until I had this discussion with him. Combine that data with the rampant discounting (apparently) that occurs from reports here, and two must be associated. That mass-market approach is never good for a luxe brand. Ask Luis Vuitton.
Author:  In2Deep [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:17 am ]
Post subject: 
It's the shopping mentality across the board in the US, we like to get good deals ;)

Make a SA $6000 and then discount it to $4500 and we're happy. Make it $4500 and ask us to pay $4500 and many people would pass to find something else :(
Author:  peezie [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:19 am ]
Post subject: 
In2Deep wrote:
It's the shopping mentality across the board in the US, we like to get good deals ;)

Make a SA $6000 and then discount it to $4500 and we're happy. Make it $4500 and ask us to pay $4500 and many people would pass to find something else :(


Very, very true. Perception of value is everything.

My advice is if you can't really afford something, the onus is not on the dealer to put you in that range. It's up to you, or change your expectations to meet your reality.
Author:  London_Calling [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Indeed. So far, it has been really enjoying to read all of your opinions. Especially driver's, Your definition was in the upper notch.

By knowing its second value, I think more people will start invest in watches. I had a 16610 earlier and its value decreased with 25 % under 1,5 years.
Author:  drax [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Roffensian wrote:
As Driver8 says this is complicated, and it is a little hard to try and make comparisons across vastly different brands.

I think that Breitling is climbin up the ladder simply because of the dramatic increase in popularity in the last few years - while Rolex make some great watches, resale value is driven in very large part by name recognition, and the same is happening to Breitling. In contrast I would suggest that Omega is dropping for the same reason.

I definitely wouldn't put Breitling that close to Rolex just yet, and would put the larger names that Driver8 mentioned (Panerai, IWC, Zenith) inbetween.


Roff,

I think you and Driver nailed it. But I must disagree with your appraisal
of Omega. The company is becoming a power brand, thanks mostly to
the push the Swatch Group (Nicolas G. Hayek) has made. Consider this:

* Omega is once again a true "manufacture," using its Co-Axial escapement
as the basis for its new movements.

* Last year, at Antiquorum's Omegamania auction, the brand
brought in an amazing 6,536,911 Swiss francs.

Omega has become a very collectible brand, and its value on the
resale market, many experts believe, will continue to rise.
Author:  Roffensian [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:08 am ]
Post subject: 
drax wrote:
Roffensian wrote:
As Driver8 says this is complicated, and it is a little hard to try and make comparisons across vastly different brands.

I think that Breitling is climbin up the ladder simply because of the dramatic increase in popularity in the last few years - while Rolex make some great watches, resale value is driven in very large part by name recognition, and the same is happening to Breitling. In contrast I would suggest that Omega is dropping for the same reason.

I definitely wouldn't put Breitling that close to Rolex just yet, and would put the larger names that Driver8 mentioned (Panerai, IWC, Zenith) inbetween.


Roff,

I think you and Driver nailed it. But I must disagree with your appraisal
of Omega. The company is becoming a power brand, thanks mostly to
the push the Swatch Group (Nicolas G. Hayek) has made. Consider this:

* Omega is once again a true "manufacture," using its Co-Axial escapement
as the basis for its new movements.

* Last year, at Antiquorum's Omegamania auction, the brand
brought in an amazing 6,536,911 Swiss francs.

Omega has become a very collectible brand, and its value on the
resale market, many experts believe, will continue to rise.


You're right - my apologies. I should have been more accurate in my post.

In looking at the OP's criteria of 2000 - 2008 I think Omega was generally in decline relative to the 'golden era' for them. Recently, there is no doubt that they have been successful in turning things around.
Author:  peezie [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:24 am ]
Post subject: 
drax wrote:
Omega has become a very collectible brand, and its value on the resale market, many experts believe, will continue to rise.


Omega = Rolex in terms of real quality IMO. Omega is more "interesting" in that it's a less-predictable choice for a nice piece--kinda like Breitling sort of still is.
Author:  drax [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Righto! :)

Steve
Author:  archie42 [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Values....
Hello !
Wheeler dealer Archie here....

No watch is a great investment...... I have had my share of dogs!

Rolex values
16233 with diamonds NEW PRICE US$10,000 - USED PRICE US$3,000
Navitimer A13322 NEW PRICE AU$8,100- USED PRICE AU$3,000
Ladies DateJust 69173 NEW PRICE AU$7,500- USED PRICE AU$3,000
Ladies gold president with diamonds NEW PRICE AU$22,500- USED PRICE AU$7,000-

I bought my wife a lovely modern AP in two tone.... it was very cheap.... paid about A$1100- for it.... sold it with a AP Box (cost me $300) for about $1300-
It was a quartz AP .... but most ladies AP are quartz anyhow.....

AP is not that great for resale!
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