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Crap..first Breitling purchase & numbers don't match. Help
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Author:  TechieTechie [ Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Crap..first Breitling purchase & numbers don't match. Help
Well, I think I may have picked a pickle. Ebay seller with good feedback, but received my Starliner Diamants just now, but I believe it does not have the matching 'papers' like the seller stated. Can someone verify that my reading of the situation is correct?

Watch Case: A71340 + 888265. Watch Lugs: 360A, T2405
Warranty book: Reference B7134053/A601A. Serial 887922. AD ID(?): 1310322461 (keypunch letters). Retailer Name: Tourneau, 309437..but no date of purchase
COSO: Montre No 887922. AD ID(?): 0050301413 (keypunch letters)
Certificate Montre de Joalliare: Starliner BC. Reference B7134053. Serial 887922. Pierres: Diamants.
Bag that the paperwork came in has the following tag: STRLNER QSS B LMOPDDDB PIL. BRI02/4570933. A7134053/C694. $7700.

Seems like the papers match each other but don't match the watch :guns:

I paid $2500, but I definitely want papers if I am paying anywhere near a fair value (yes, I'm one of those people...you should see the spreadsheet I keep for my BMW service records :geek: ).

I was thinking of giving the seller a choice...$1k credit ($1.5k sale) or a full return/refund. Although reading ebay's rules, I think I would have to return it, get full refund, then rebuy the watch at the lower price (it wouldn't kill me not to get this one...I could wait until one with papers comes along). If it helps, watch is in used by very very good condition with very few signs of use (strap and case have a few, very light surface scratches).

Thoughts?

Thanks.....
Author:  Driver8 [ Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crap..first Breitling purchase & numbers don't match. He
Well you're right about the papers and watch not matching - the numbers that should match are the 888265 and the 887922 - so if it was sold as all matching then yes you have a case for a refund.

However, IMO $2500 is already VERY good price for a Starliner if that's an OEM diamond bezel (which I can't tell from the resolution of the picture as I'm looking at it on my phone). As a result I'd be very surprised if, a) you'd be able to get it for $1500, and b) if you'd find another like it for $2500, even without matching papers. On eBay, the lowest priced Starliner available today with a diamond bezel is $4950, and that's without diamond markers.

If I was you, I'd be tempted to get Breitling to verify nothing untoward has happened to the watch (e.g. a replacement caseback or something) and if it's all straight, then I'd be tempted to keep it as is.........., especially for the price you paid.
Author:  Roffensian [ Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crap..first Breitling purchase & numbers don't match. He
Agreed.....

As long as it's factory diamonds (Breitling should be able to confirm if the watch serial had a diamond bezel originally). I would also be interested in having an AD check the movement serial number.
Author:  TechieTechie [ Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crap..first Breitling purchase & numbers don't match. He
Thanks Driver8 and Roff for the validation that it doesn't have the right papers. I thought it was a very good price too, but I hate to have the seller get away unscathed. It kills me that people are dishonest like this....

I've attached another picture, close up. I think the bezel is OEM..but welcome feedback here.

I'm debating between keeping it, returning it and buy the marine blue (my first choice, but it's $4k), or buying the marine blue outright. Though it does seem silly to have the exact same watch with 2 different color faces. :?

I have 5 days to initiate a return...so I don't think I'd have time to send it to BUSA for validation (even though I'm within driving distance). Is this something an AD could do? I have Shreve Crump & Low, Barmakian, EB Horn, Sidney Thomas and Long's Jewelers to choose from for service (and to put on the much needed additional links!).
Author:  Roffensian [ Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crap..first Breitling purchase & numbers don't match. He
Bezel looks factory, but can't tell for sure on the diamonds. An AD should be able to access the BUSA database (assuming a BUSA watch) to see whether it came with factory diamonds.
Author:  TechieTechie [ Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crap..first Breitling purchase & numbers don't match. He
Thanks Roff...that's a great idea. I will do that tomorrow.

One question...can I ask an AD to 'check the insides' (e.g. movement) to confirm it is a real Breitling? Is this something they would/could do on the spot, or would I have to leave it? And how much should I expect to pay? This is my first foray into high end watches....want to make sure I don't look like a yahoo :yeahthat

Whichever watch I end up with, it's going to BUSA for a full service (particularly because I wear my watch 24/7)...just hoping not to pay for service 2x.

And just for fun...are the Breitling cases (inside)marked with a serial number? Just curious if it's anything like cars. On BMWs, all major sheet metal member are stamped with the VIN.

Again, thanks everyone for great insight!
Author:  Roffensian [ Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crap..first Breitling purchase & numbers don't match. He
Caseback (outside) and movement are marked with a serial number. Any AD with a watchmaker can check, shouldn't charge you more than $20 and should really do it for nothing.
Author:  TechieTechie [ Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crap..first Breitling purchase & numbers don't match. He
Well, yesterday was frustrating. Tried to take Roff's advice and visited 2 ADs here in Boston, and one of the top 2 high end vintage watch experts here in Boston...and none of them knew the watch model, none of them knew to call Breitling USA (or look online for the history), and none of them offered (even after some innocent prodding/leading questions) to open it and check the movement. They all had the same 'story'...watches and serials can be forged nowadays, best to send it to BUSA.

The most knowledgable and friendliness (Long's) did suggest sending it into BUSA and they did buff it up for me (and it the bezel looks MUCH more like real thing now). When I called BUSA, they were incredibly helpful, said they could validate it within 24 hours (at no cost) and could order me lost paperwork (for a fee, but I'm okay with that). So I will send it there (or take a road trip, as I need additional links too) next week.

But, now I have to deal with the seller. I now have the original sale receipt from Tourneau..and sale paperwork is in his name (he's got an unusual last name) and the model and serial number on the sale paperwork do match the model and serial on the bag that contains the Breitling paperwork. And from what I can tell he bought it new (original price less 50%, final sale)...and he's been very communicative, so it doesn't seem like he is trying to hide anything. Is it possible that Tourneau literally got the paperwork mixed up when doing the sale?

Anyways, here's a picture post cleanup. Any additional questions/comments/concerns are certainly welcome!

Thanks for helping and for letting me vent :bow:
Author:  MattC [ Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crap..first Breitling purchase & numbers don't match. He
I'm going to say that's a factory bezel for sure. Looks great though and even if the papers don't match I think you have a great piece there for the money!
Author:  Roffensian [ Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crap..first Breitling purchase & numbers don't match. He
MattC wrote:
I'm going to say that's a factory bezel for sure. Looks great though and even if the papers don't match I think you have a great piece there for the money!

It's a factory bezel, but not sure how to tell whether diamonds are Breitling Top Wesseltons from a photo!!!

TechieTechie wrote:
Is it possible that Tourneau literally got the paperwork mixed up when doing the sale?

Yes, ADs can issue the wrong papers with the watch, and if it was Tourneau there's probably a better chance than most. Flag to BUSA the anomaly because if it is a mix up then someone is out there with the watch that matches your papers and I would think that BUSA would want to match them up, perhaps also waiving fees to replace yours!
Author:  Baco Noir [ Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crap..first Breitling purchase & numbers don't match. He
Yes, ADs do mix up paperwork occasionally. Last year, I bought an IWC Portofino and luckily I looked at the warranty card when I got home and cross checked the numbers, because otherwise I'd be in the same boat. I called them and they looked around the store and found the right card and mailed it to me.


Sent from my iPad Air 2 using Tapatalk (so I blame autocorrect for the spellin' errs)
Author:  natesen [ Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crap..first Breitling purchase & numbers don't match. He
I received the wrong papers as well from an AD. Noticed about a month later and fortunately, the AD still had the correct ones at the shop.
Author:  TechieTechie [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crap..first Breitling purchase & numbers don't match. He
Hi everyone....well, the watch is with BUSA service center in Wilton CT..and they have verified it is an authentic Breitling Starliner Diamante (that has not been serviced in 10 years!). It's undergoing the Full Monty cleanup and hopefully I'll have it back before the holidays. The service center offered to give me a letter (for free) stating that it is an authentic Breitling, but that I'd have to go back to the original AD to get replacement paperwork (from Switzerland).

So, first off...thank you to all for your advice during this journey. I am keeping the watch :)

Secondly, any advice between going to Tourneau for the replacement paperwork or to Breitling USA? I have the original sales receipt, CC receipt and all the original paperwork (no boxes, though), all with the same Serial number...but the watch doesn't match it. I thought the service center could do it, but they obviously just do the service. I don't think I can ask the original seller to do it, but don't know if I should drive down to Tourneau in NYC or try to do it out of Tourneau's Boston locations or call Breitling directly (since I thought they needed the watch for the replacement paperwork...and lord knows I don't want to be without the watch for another few months after the service is done).

Thanks
Author:  Roffensian [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crap..first Breitling purchase & numbers don't match. He
Tourneau don't have a reputation for effectiveness, but it's their issue so I would start there (in Boston). They should at least cover the costs of ordering replacements from Breitling.
Author:  Desert Hiker [ Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crap..first Breitling purchase & numbers don't match. He
Roffensian wrote:
Tourneau don't have a reputation for effectiveness, but it's their issue so I would start there (in Boston). They should at least cover the costs of ordering replacements from Breitling.


:yeahthat

I negotiated with Tourneau (in Arizona) on a used Breitling and asked about docs & box, etc. The highlights of their reply:

1. Most used watch buyers don't care much about the docs & box - resale buyers are into using the watch and not re-resale - and not having the box & docs doesn't affect re-resale value that much.

2. They don't attempt to keep the docs & box with used watches....it's exceedingly hard to do given acquisitions around the system, checking/reconditioning in a central location (NYC?), and then distribution of used watches for resale to any of their locations that wish to have a particular used watch in their case.

My thoughts on the above....

1. :supereek:

2. If Tourneau can't keep the box & docs together through the intake, rework, redistribution and resale process, then they need a new logistics manager.

Desert Hiker
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