The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Have read quite a lot about the grey market and its dangers and pitfalls (replica, no warranty, no serial, no AD stamp etc.).

Once such drawbacks have been identified, and you know what to avoid and where to go, a kind of phylosophical chicken and egg question comes to my mind. Hoping it's not too dull. If you buy a watch online from a reputable retailer, in unworn condition, intact serial number, warranty booklet stamped and signed by an AD, do we still call this "grey market", considering that for all intents and purposes, the watch came originally from a bona-fide AD, and that any AD would honour the warranty? How the watch came into our possession would be completely transparent to an AD. Shall we call that "white market", "transparent market" or something else to distinguish it from grey naughty market?

I realize I'm treading on a fine line here, and I fully support ADs. But my point is why stigmatize a whole distribution chanel when you are dealing with a reputable online shop, and you get a good product, a good service, and you help ADs getting rid of stock, and you even help Breitling reaching out to a larger customer base? If there were no grey market dangers out there, wouldn't online distribution be a good complementary channel, like it is for many other products?

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life's too short and you only live once

I guess it depends on your definition of reputable. If a brand explicitly states it's product is not to be sold online through non authorized distribution sources, is it ethical or reputable for a supposedly "reputable" online retailer to do so?

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Coasterkid
Breitling Super Avenger
Breitling Steelfish
Breitling B01
Omega Seamaster
Rolex T/T Yachtmaster
TW Steel TW22

Most of the time from my experience, the grey market will not say that they are authorized dealers. They offer their own warranty. That's te only thing I don't agree with, because they can't use or have access to genuine parts and accessories. I buy from grey market for cheaper, then if I ever need service I pay for it through an AD. Buying from a grey market affords me the money to pay for repairs or service. Most of the time I can find deals anywhere from 20-45% retail. I've bought from grey market dealers for years and never had any problems. If the factory warranty is that big of a deal then buy from AD. Less of a discount, but you don't have to worry about warranty issues. To try and fool a company like Breitling by lying about your factory warranty to me is "unethical" but that's just my 2 cents.

You get stamped warranty from some gray market sellers.
Better ask before purchase.
With some discount from forum sponsor ADs, you'll be near gray market prices.

Best post on the thread.

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SHARKMAN

Seriously, how many of these threads, mostly very old, have to be revived to discuss this?

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Justin
Please contact me via PM for the contact details for Govberg Jewelers
Govberg is an AD for over 50 fine Swiss and German watch brands.
Visit them on the web at http://www.govbergwatches.com or call 800-528-8463

My thoughts exactly. I'm glad you are happy that you bought from the grey market, congrats. Maybe that's what he is looking for.

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sco
Breitling Chrono Superocean
Omega Aqua Terra 8500
Rolex Submariner Date Ceramic

Ok I will stir it up knowing this is a beaten to death topic. I heard that Breitling is fully aware of the grey market and they send AD's more watches than they can sell so the AD's release them to the grey market and some remove their signature on the warrentee paperwork which I believe voids the warrantee? Otherwise, if you get full and complete paper work, you have access to the warrantee
correct? I bought mine from a dealer and glad I did because I got the one in a million that had problems right for the start and had to go to the service center twice!

If I ever went grey market (which after my experience will probably never happen)I would never let the grey market dealer touch the watch because if you ever want authorized service you may get denied by BUSA if the watch was not serviced properly by the grey market dealer (for example non OEM parts used or improper service).

Forgetting my experience which I hope is very very rare, you are trading the discount against paying for authorized service during the mfg warrantee, not a bad bet is my guess. While the amount you save is dependent on the percentage discount and the price of the watch, 20%~25% would probably make it worthwhile.

Ok start shouting at me! I am bored so there u go LOL!

I have purchased 3 of my 6 super avengers from gray market dealers, swissluxury.com,watchmaxx and amazon never had an issue and got all papers but not stamped, I look at it as, if a watch of this quality does not last till the warranty without needing service then I would not buy another on, unless of course you got the one the posting before me got. So far so good.

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5 Super Avengers
1 Super Avenger 2
1 Super Avenger limited edition
1 Super avenger night mission
1 Limited edition chronomat Boston Celtics
Navitimer GMT
Transocean Chronograph Unitime
2 Omega planet ocean chronographs
1 Tag heuer Monaco

My experiences have been very good in the past.

The one stand out, which was not exactly the same as your thinking, but I add it here as an illustration, was a recent purchase from an on-line retailer. I was totally satisfied in the end, but it was a risky transaction to save some dollars. I went in with my eyes wide open, but I did not expect the story to unfold as it did. Keep in mind that this watch is not available in any form from the official lines the maker produces. It’s a Slide Rule Aviator watch and appears to only exist for sale on-line. They don’t have one of these in the official catalogue.

I purchased a Revue Thommen a few years back from a German retailer who was on-selling versions of RT that did not appear in the official RT catalogue. It is an RT watch in every sense, which even the makers (Grovana watches) do not dispute, but for some reason or other it does not appear in their product schedule or catalogues. It’s a beautiful watch and one I like to wear, however the slide rule accuracy was out by about 7 ticks caused by sloppy manufacturing. For a company that supplies instruments to the aero industry, I found this curious. In every other way, the watch is perfect and I would not be writing this, but. I got nowhere with the on-line seller for a fix, who it would appear, is not bound by any rules other than how he feels on the day. He was not that helpful and in the end could not assist me. Charming……..

The upshot (after intense tracking down of someone at Grovana) was that this particular model does not exist in the regular Revue Thommen collection as it's a special series for the web-sales only. They understood my concerns and the fact I wanted a fix under warrantee. The gentleman at Grovana was very helpful though and offered to have the watch repaired if I sent it back to him in Switzerland. An arrangement ensured and I got the watch fixed without any cost to me. I live on the east coast of Australia, so it was a bit of an ordeal. I am very grateful to him all the same and was pleased with the outcome and the overall experience. I think they replaced the entire watch in the end, as the watch delivered was brand new in every sense.

We have some of the best consumer laws anywhere in the world here in Australia. Aussies take umbrage when being ‘spinned’ and as a result we have very stringent consumer rules. If the on-line seller had been here in Oz, I would have had no issue getting him to return the watch for repair or a refund. Without question. Even if I had bought it through EBay from an overseas seller, then they are obliged to conform to our consumer laws, so a return of the watch or refund based on adherence to laws here would have been assured.

If you want to know what’s wrong with selling products in a different place to the usual retail market, then this is one of them. A great watch with a risky retailing experience for the maker and the buyer. It would appear this watch can only be delivered at lower cost because it by passes the usual retail selling arrangements.


AD = official arrangements and guarantees, but at higher prices.

Non AD = lower prices but (there by the grace of God go I) potential warrantee concerns…….. Or, if I buy from you, will you still respect me in the morning.

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Jim

"You have Control".

Was wondering the very same thing. I take one day off and find half a dozen old threads revived by the same person to say the same thing plus this new one.

I've said all of this before but....

1) Grey market is a crap shoot, you may get a warranty, you usually won't. You may get a new watch, you may get a lemon / return / similar. The 'new' watch may well be 5 years old and in need of service simply from sitting unsold
2) Even with the clampdown on AD discounts there are sponsor ADs who can offer you excellent customer service, 100% peace of mind and pricing close to, at or even better than grey market
3) Breitling is well aware of the grey market and could easily clamp down on it by buying a grey market watch, tracing the serial number to the AD and then removing the AD license. They don't because they are still getting paid and without the grey market fewer watches would be sold.

There is no such thing in life as something for nothing - grey market sellers make money, which means that they have to buy from ADs for less than they sell to customers. If the watch is a popular model that is brand new then why would an AD do that? Usual answer is simply because they operate in markets that don't support the volume of sales that Breitling demands, and generally that is not major market ADs. Other oprtions are that the watch has an undesirable history.

The OP's statement in other threads about buying a brand new Seawolf originally sourced from a US AD and sold grey market with warranty for 25% off list is surprising to say the least. I am sure that the BUSA employees monitoring this site are praying for the OP to post pictures that show the AD!!!

Thanks all for your candid comments. much appreciated. I needed some input to try and make a better opinion.

I have a bit of a dilema right now. I've fallen in love with the Seawolf with stratus silver dial. I went to my AD, tried on the grey dial they had in stock, loved the watch and ordered the silver dial (since they didn't have it in stock). So far so good.

Two days later they call me to let me know:
1/ Breitling have stopped manufacturing the silver dial (discontinued)
2/ absolutely not a single AD in my country has it. I called quite a few, and same story: not in stock, not in production, not available anywhere for a swap between ADs (they do that sometimes apparently).

I tried to find one second hand from a private seller, but no luck. So I decided to try grey market I placed the order and now waiting for the piece to arrive in a couple of days, from an online retailer which seems to have good feedback from buyers and offer 15 days money back garantee. The sales manager assures me that the booklet is stamped by an AD and dated Feb 2013.

Have I done something wrong here? Should I not have bought the watch at all, since Breitling have stopped making it? I'm still in time to cancel the purchase and return it. Feel free to share your thoughts, good or bad.

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life's too short and you only live once

No. You were lucky to get stamped AD warranty from gray market.

I don't see a reason you shouldn't buy a watch you like, discontinued or not.

But I would most certainly check how old the watch really is when you get it (http://www.breitlingsource.com/articles_dating.shtml)- a US sourced grey market piece with warranty is so unusual I would really want to make sure that there are no issues.

I think until members get a satisfactory answer to their specific questions. The grey market has been discussed before - true, but VicLeChic has specific circumstances and wrote in that manner. Perhaps his seacrch for meaningful ansrwers to his particular circmstances could not be found in previous threads on this topic. I don't know, but I am prepared to give him the benefit.

Afterall, the idea of posting a topic specific to your enquiry is to get assistance on something specific to you, and perhaps broaden the knowledge base of other members at the same time. Whats the point of asking for assistance otherwise!

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Jim

"You have Control".