The Breitling Watch Source Forums

ok i think i am about to pull the trigger on my first Breitling, Headwind Chronometre. Can I please have some opinons. Thank you!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160851797861?ss ... 1438.l2649

No box or papers, comes with 1 year warranty and was serviced less than a year ago.

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Breitling Blackbird BEB
Breitling Headwind
Rolex Platinum Yachtmaster M Serial

Does it come with a 1 year warranty from the seller or from Breitling because it was serviced within the past year? A service comes with a 1 year warranty from the point of service IIRC. The auction just says 1 year warranty... If they just had it serviced by Breitling, there should be a paper trail on that SN, which can act as formal documentation of authentification of an OEM product, as Breitling will only service their own watches. If the seller claims it was serviced in the past year but doesn't have paperwork to show that, I'd be a little suspicious. And BTW the Crosswind is a beautiful watch.

I think its real smooth =)

it was serviced in house by his own watchmaker.

The only thing about the watch besides the lack of paper trail is looking at the picutre of the bezel it looks to have a nice nick in the upper left 1/4 of the bezel. can that be smoothed out? Or what is the cost of a new bezel later on the in the future?

I understand value cannot be discussed, but atleast tell me if this is a good deal please!

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Breitling Blackbird BEB
Breitling Headwind
Rolex Platinum Yachtmaster M Serial

Can't tell from the pic if the s/n is still on it or has been polished off. I learned about this the hard way. The s/n is not deeply etched and it happens. Should be below the model number designation. This doesn't mean there is necessarily anything wrong the the watch. If it's missing, could have been inadvertant polishing by a third party or some grey market sellers intentionally buffed it out years ago. To my knowledge, this was not a target of the fakers. If the number isn't there, that would affect value of the watch and resale someday, but as these become harder to find, maybe not a big deal in a few years. Mine is a black dial and in addition to my only Breitling at the moment, maybe my favorite.

With a bracelet and s/n on the back, I think the $2K range is about right these days. I haven't researched it in a while. If there is no s/n, probably a little less but frankly depends upon how much an issue it is with the buyer.

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Scott

AP Royal Oak 15400, silver
Zenith Chronomaster El Primero Classic Cars
Vintage gold Corum
Rolex DJ 36 TT, oyster dial, oyster/smooth
Baume & Mercier Riviera 200m, silver dial/aquamarine bezel
Breitling Superocean 57, rose/stainless

Then run away - his in house watchmaker won't have access to factory parts unless he is Breitling authorised so reused hands, generic ETA parts, etc.

i'm sorry, s/n = serial number? If its not polished off, where should it be?

should i ask him if his watchmaker used any non-breilting parts?

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Breitling Blackbird BEB
Breitling Headwind
Rolex Platinum Yachtmaster M Serial

This is how it was explained to me...the seller's warranty means that any service on it would be done by a third party rather than Breitling, and so there would be no guarantee on accuracy. Not necessarily a bad thing as some watchmakers do use Breitling parts to my understanding, but most don't. You have no way of verifying at this point as you know nothing about them...but if they were authorized or used genuine parts, the seller would almost surely list this given the common sense boost to resale value.

To complicate this further, this watch has an ETA movement in it, which is a different company than Breitling. Breitling purchases the highest of the ETA movement tiers (there are usually between 3-5 grades), then strips them apart and does whatever it is they do to meet their quality standards (supposedly over 1,000 individual tests according to Breitling's website), and achieve a COSC certification (not sure if that is a COSC model but I believe it is). Whatever Breitling does, it's a huge difference. I had a Tag with the same movement as my Breitling...my Tag was gaining over 30 seconds a day (at best) where as my Breitling is less than 1/2 a second...I hated that Tag solely because of that. Because the ETA movements have multiple grades of the same base platform, this complicates in determining what parts were used. Additionally, many fakes use actual ETA movements...the lowest grade mind you.

The lack of any paperwork should raise an eyebrow...especially given when having the chance to send the watch to Breitling, which would mean paperwork on its authenticity included with service, it went to a third party instead...both cost money and one would boost resale value yet the seller opted otherwise. This third party may have done the absolute minimum to keep it running, the seals used may not be factory, and the water resistance may not exist. The band is also poorly polished as I can see a ton of buffing marks, where as the Breitling service makes it literally new. Until you see the bracelet markings, there is always the chance the bracelet could be aftermarket (this seems to be rare but surely not impossible).

The lack of a box should also raise an eyebrow. While it doesn't necessarily mean the product is fake, grey market, or stolen, the Breitling box for that item is fancy and all of the items included with the box show its authenticity as well as care instructions. There are numerous scenarios that would lead to a 5 grand (MSRP) watch being sold without any of this. At best, it was an owner who didn't care about getting/keeping the box...but I personally would not buy if that were the case. Why? It makes me wonder if the buyer cared for their watch at all if they didn't even bother to get the box, manual, medallion, and paperwork...automatic watches do need regular service and conditioning treatment. A failure to do so can result in a HUGE repair bill down the road and some people are just less meticulous with their products than others.

I'm not sure if Breitling works on their watches modified by a third party or not, but many other manufacturers both void warranties (not applicable in this case) and refuse to service their products worked on by someone other than whom they authorize. If it lacks a SN, Breitling may very well refuse to touch it (most other products I have use this policy due to liability reasons). So there are some risks you would take here, which are up to you. It is also worth noting that the Breitling service results in a yearlong warranty that any Breitling dealer and service center in the world honors. Personally, I think you could find one at an AD or the forums here for not much more, which means you don’t have to worry about the (multiple) above risks. If I were to buy a Breitling on the Bay myself, I would probably pay with an AMEX through eBay and send it straight to Breitling SA, which means the amount I spend would factor in that cost, and make sure the seller knows the watch is going to Breitling and if they misrepresented it, a claim would be filed. I am a recent new owner...I've wanted a Breitling for years and I've looked at them on eBay on and off for the past decade. I ultimately decided not to buy on eBay for my first Breitling, and after talking to other members here, I think I made the right choice. The classified section here has reputable sellers (some may even be ADs) with factory products and all documents, packaging, purchase documentation, warranty documentation, accuracy certification, ownership documentation, etc., and so if you are going to drop that kind of money, an AD or a well-known member here seems to be a much safer bet.

So do I personally think it is a good buy? No. It’s not in all that great of condition between all of the scratches and chunks, and the insides could be total crap. But again, this is all me personally speaking my opinion based from the words of others and my own first hand experiences.

As Roff stated, unless the watchmaker who worked on it was at a certified Breitling service center, he'll not have had access to Breitling parts. Some of those parts are single use ( the hands ) and will need to be replaced ASAP. The refitted hands could fall off.

You could bring this to light to the seller and see if he'd be willing to being the price down in anticipation of a costly service. No telling what's lurking inside the case....

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“The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.” - Albert Einstein

The serial number is right below the model number on the caseback. The model number is A45355, in the box. The serial number should be just below it, but is not at all visible in the pics. That's a red flag. If the serial number was intentionally removed, Breitling won't service it. Sometimes, though, serial numbers just wear off, since they're only lightly etched. In these cases, if Breitling can tell that, they might be nice about it, but the point is, you're taking a significant risk if it's gone.

The whole thing about the parts is iffy. If the watch has been radically altered inside, Breitling may refuse to service it. Otherwise, they will replace every non-Breitling part with their own parts, and charge you for it. The whole thing is a crap shoot.

It's a nice looking watch, notwithstanding some issues with condition, and I understand the temptation to buy it. As Ian pointed out, you might be able to use some of this as leverage to get a better deal. In the end, though, you'll have to weigh the risks against the benefits and do what you're comfortable with.

Minority Report - if it were a black dial and I could get it under $2, I would buy it out from under you, regardless of the missing box/papers or the mystery repairman. It would soon go straight to my AD's Breitling certified guy for a once over and maybe some work, so assume you may spend $3-500. I've bought other older Breitlings with similar backgrounds and made an extra investment and they are my favorite watches. Two of mine have "single use" hands that have been re-used. N o issues and I am not dainty about them. Worse case, I pay $150 for new hands if one comes off or starts slipping, but a good Breitling guy knows how to get around the whole single use stuff. Find out if your local AD(s) has an in-house Breitling certified watch maker - it cuts down tremendously on the time investment. In fact, there is a watch Ninja at a non-Breitling AD here I would let work on anything I own.

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SHARKMAN

Wow, thank you for all of the help. I learned a lot from your post.

I think I will hold off on this watch unless he accepts a much much lower offer. Hopefully I can find one that I will be proud to own and not scared to own

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Breitling Blackbird BEB
Breitling Headwind
Rolex Platinum Yachtmaster M Serial

Good luck. They are worth the wait.

I do think it is fair to tell you that since these watches were not in particularly large production, and only from approximately 2001 to 2005, it may be particularly difficult or you may pay quite a premium to get a full boxes and paper model. I suspect it will become more often than not at the seller may not know the service history of the watch. I think you are best served by asking around about both Breitling ADs and well-reputed independent repair persons. A good one will really tell you what he or she can or cannot do. Don't assume that every Breitling AD has a qualified Breitling watchmaker . Likewise, in my experience a good independent dealer
//repairperson should know the other qualified people in town. Word of mouth goes a long way. We happen to have a good AD in town with a good qualified watchmaker, but I trust the independent who I have known for 10 years with anything I own. He had the refinishing done by the best polish/refinish guy in town, who was not a Breitling watchmaker.

I bought mine relatively cheap and without papers. I didn't want to wait anymore and the price was right. I almost sold it once when some unexpected expenses came up, which is when I learned that I overlooked the serial number issue. I took the watch back and am so glad I did. It ran fine but a few months later I did the service and had the so-so polish job redone correctly, and

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Scott

AP Royal Oak 15400, silver
Zenith Chronomaster El Primero Classic Cars
Vintage gold Corum
Rolex DJ 36 TT, oyster dial, oyster/smooth
Baume & Mercier Riviera 200m, silver dial/aquamarine bezel
Breitling Superocean 57, rose/stainless

Mitchellb2005 - email me at gpension at yahoo dot com. I tried to pm you but it's to going through.

I'm with Sharkman on this one. I've not bought too many used Breitlings as I tend to buy new, but those I have I've always immediately just sent off to Breitling for a service, irrespective of the supposed "service history". That way I know it's as close to new as possible.

The watch you are looking at here is genuine, so provided you can get it for a reasonable price, and factor in the cost of a full service, then there's no problem at all. The lack of box and papers on a watch of this age is no big deal (provided it's priced accordingly again), and the lack of warranty card is irrelevant other than just wanting a complete set. The only thing to be careful of (as stated) is ensuring that the serial number is still there on the caseback.

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Driver8

Site Moderator