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Why so many second hand Breitlings without box or papers?
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Author:  SimonC [ Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:08 am ]
Post subject:  Why so many second hand Breitlings without box or papers?
Good Breitling people,

I am currently on the lookout for something really special, a solid gold or platinum 'Ling. With the prices of new models bordering on the preposterous, I am of course drawn to the used market.

However I am amazed how many of these are on offer without the original box and papers. Why would someone not have them? The box, especially in the case of the precious metal models, is absolutely awesome; usually solid wood. How can this become lost? If I'd spent many thousands of pounds on a solid gold or platinum item, I would most certainly keep the box. The papers as well as really important; of course an older watch will be out of any warranty period, but the papers are important as it shows when the watch was serviced by Breitling. Indeed for the watches I have, I still have the papers and boxes.

With specialist cars such as Ferraris a documented service history is a pre-requisite to the car holding its' value; a Ferrari for example without any service history would be far cheaper than one with full service history. I think as well it shows how cared for the watch was, if it has the papers; afterall if these become lost, surely that indicates in some way the owner is a bit careless. It just suprises me a bit!
Author:  Time Bandit [ Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why so many second hand Breitlings without box or papers
Higher end I could only guess at, but some grey market sellers will not provide the papers and that is the case for the Seawolf I recently bought. But in general, I think you have to look at it from the average person's perspective, and that is they buy a watch intending to keep it for good, and the packaging doesn't mean a whole lot. Obviously some of the boxes are are quite nice, but for someone who drops 50k on a watch and they're not even big into watches, it's probably just a box, and something that's no big deal. Anyway, that's how I see it.
Author:  Iantheklutz [ Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why so many second hand Breitlings without box or papers
I can only guess that the average watch buyer just sees the boxes/papers as so much detritus. As WIS, we're incline to place value on the whole package while the public at large probably doesn't see it that way.
Author:  nickzac [ Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why so many second hand Breitlings without box or papers
Many simply aren't factory products. Obviously not all are fake but the packaging with the Breitling is not a cardboard tube you get with a cheap watch and the warranty identification card clearly specifies that you need it for warranty service. Most people can put together that having those documents are important for ownership even if you dont sell it...and if you do, even more so. But then again I am a skeptic when it comes to online Breitling dealers given they arent authorized and some Breitling fakes are so damned close that they even use the original movement (which IIRC is the same maker usually but not Breitling takes these apart and rebuilds them). 99% of the sales Ive seen on here come with every original part and I dont think that is by chance. An AD or knowledgable owner with documentation showing the life of the watch is the way to go...and honestly, a used Breitling from an AD is often actually less expensive than the same model is online. As far as eBay goes, I've never trusted it for anything high end. I've seen everything from fake sunglasses to pens to even designer clothes.
Author:  zak57 [ Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why so many second hand Breitlings without box or papers
Of equal concern is the number of boxes, COSC certificates, warranty books etc that are peddled on eBay which provide even more cover for scammers and other nefarious individuals to offload dodgy pieces to unsuspecting buyers. I have bought 2 great pieces on eBay but did my research first and made sure all the numbers etc matched. However, I do agree that an AD is the best place to to buy from.
Author:  Novacastrian [ Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why so many second hand Breitlings without box or papers
Stolen watches are another reason for no box and papers. Obviously not every watch without them is stolen, but it often rings a bell for me.
Author:  raymond147 [ Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why so many second hand Breitlings without box or papers
Novacastrian wrote:
Stolen watches are another reason for no box and papers. Obviously not every watch without them is stolen, but it often rings a bell for me.


Agree...!
Author:  vulcanpilot [ Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why so many second hand Breitlings without box or papers
I was left a Breitling Aerospace Repetition Minutes in a will ... It came to me just as the watch, nothing else. I tactfully asked about the box, COSC, manual etc, and was told that it had all been thrown away soon after the watch had been bought, yet the watch had been put in a jewellery box and had hardly been worn (just twice I was told). The view was that the owner & his wife just believed the stuff was packaging like you'd get with a DVD player and took up valuable space.

You have to admit that Breitling boxes ( especially the new ones) aren't exactly small, and I'll bet with the newer boxes with the leather travel case that most people will jus keep the travel case.

My latest acquisition came sans papers and manual (annoyingly), but the price I paid from the dealer reflected this. I'll get a replacement manual and COSC when it goes in for an overhaul service in 12 months or so.

As an aside, for anything costing more than a few quid that I don't consider to be a 'disposable item' I keep the boxes and packing, as when I do ever part with it (sell it or give it away) it shows that I've looked after it and hopefully it's worth a bit more with all the boxes and manuals. I have about 3 TV and DVD boxes in the attic, plus lots of others from various stuff I own.
Author:  zak57 [ Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why so many second hand Breitlings without box or papers
As an aside, for anything costing more than a few quid that I don't consider to be a 'disposable item' I the boxes and packing, as when I do ever part with it (sell it or give it away) it shows that I've looked after it and hopefully it's worth a bit more with all the boxes and manuals. I have about 3 TV and DVD boxes in the attic, plus lots of others from various stuff I own.[/quote]

Yep I do the same, especially with my camera gear which like watches does fetch a better price when boxed. It does take up space but I can usually manage to put boxes inside each other to minimise encroachment into my partner's shoe storage area. (yes, she keeps her boxes too!)

:uplaugh:
Author:  enezdez [ Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why so many second hand Breitlings without box or papers
Currently, I only have the "Original" box & papers for the Panerai as it is the only watch I own which was bought new. All of my other watches have been bought used and have come without box & papers. However, they have all been bought from an authorized dealer and all come with either one (1) year or two (2) year warranty - depending when it was bought they changed their warranty policy to two (2) years. As a result, I rather buy pre-owned great savings remember you can't wear the box or the papers!!!

Cheers,

Enezdez
Author:  rick [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why so many second hand Breitlings without box or papers
Iantheklutz wrote:
I can only guess that the average watch buyer just sees the boxes/papers as so much detritus. As WIS, we're incline to place value on the whole package while the public at large probably doesn't see it that way.

:yeahthat
Author:  SimonC [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why so many second hand Breitlings without box or papers
Thanks for the replies people. Of course without the box or papers might indicate a stolen watch - that is why for example I am deliberately ignoring private ads from individuals, I am only considering buying from a proper jeweller. One thing though - it would be a good weapon to use to negotiate a lower price, as the watches advertised without B + P don't seem to be much cheaper than watches with them.

The search goes on, see what happens!
Author:  az erik [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why so many second hand Breitlings without box or papers
I had the opposite. A bunch of watches stollen, leaving me with boxes and papers. The good thing is the papers got me refunded with the insurance company, and I sold most of the boxes on ebay... to other watch dealers. Some boxes are super cheap stuff but Piaget, FM, Panerai, RD have some outright stunning boxes. Even my SOH's have what I would consider nice boxes (with the travel box and large clamshell) I wouldn't sell them unless yes I never planned on having them back in the box or got tired of all these off sized boxes in the closet. Most all my watches end up in 1 of 2 other boxes, or a winder.

I turn down nearly any deal for less than $1k without papers. It's not that hard to keep a manual. It might be harder to keep a Nardin box from cracking :)
Author:  vintage [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why so many second hand Breitlings without box or papers
I've been told by an AD that often customers buy the watch and wear it out of the store with no interest in the box and paperwork. Might explain why you often see dealers selling boxes and such without watches.
Author:  BreitLight [ Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why so many second hand Breitlings without box or papers
I never, EVER, buy a watch of substantial value without proper box and matching papers. I also do my research to see what should have came with the watch when bought retail from an AD. That's just me though. Some people call me paranoid. I call it "completeness."
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