A disconcerting incident

stowebird · **Posted:** Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:32 am

I owned an Aerospace for 13 years, and it performed perfectly for all that time. I recently lost it while skiing off piste (so it isn't likely to be found). My first instinct was to replace it with a new Aerospace. However, as I looked around, I began to think that I might rather have a mechanical movement this time around. After much deliberation, I focussed on the Blackbird. Yesterday, I took my wife to a high-end dealer to let her see the Blackbird that they were holding for me. She loved it, and I was prepared to purchase it despite it's requiring a much greater cash outlay than I had planned on. BUT, as we were looking at it, I wound it to get it started, AND IT WOULDN'T START. The sales person couldn't make it work, and the watch department manager couldn't make it work. So, they said that they could get me another one within a few days and would even provide a bit of extra discount in order to allay my concerns. However, my confidence has been deeply shaken, particularly in a price range that is already borderline for me. Maybe I'll just go back to the quartz. (Just as additional background, I own a Rolex that my father gave me in 1963, and it has never once failed to work.) I would greatly appreciate any comments whatsoever. Thanks!

Driver8 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:50 am

I can understand it shaking your confidence, but it sounds like just an unlucky one-off to me. If any product is made in reasonally large numbers you can't help but get the odd issue.

For example, if you look at the membership numbers on this forum (nearly 1600), and if you assume that everyone here owns at least one Breitling (some many more), then that's at least 1600 watches. Of those, I guess we've probably only really had 10 guys list problems of any description here. Even if we assume it was 20 problems, that still only represents a fraction over 1%.

I'm not saying this is necesarily representative the world over, but problems are (thankfully!) few and far between.

All I can say is don't let this issue put you off the brand as a whole.

Damian · **Posted:** Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:12 am

I couldn't agree more with those comments from Driver8

RJRJRJ · **Posted:** Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:31 am

I agree with Driver8 too. Just a bad example you happened to find.

ffeelliixx · **Posted:** Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:52 pm

This is a subject near and dear to my heart. I purchased my first automatic watch about two years ago. It was a Breitling Montbrillant Datora.

The chronograph hour and minute hands wouldn't sync properly. The hour hand would run ahead, and the chronograph would give irreconcilable readings. Later I noticed that on the 24th of the month, the watch would flip the date to the 25th at 10am.

On the fourth repair visit, BUSA agreed to replace it. I will receive the new Datora from BUSA next week.

This was my very first automatic watch and, to date, it's the most I've spent on a watch. No doubt this is part of the reason that I'm drawn to quartz watches. It just so happens that the maker of my defective watch, Breitling, offers among the best luxury quartz watches on the market. I've since added an Emergency and Aerospace to my collection. I've also purchased another auto Breitling, a Skyracer, and it has performed very well - if I don't count that the minute hand jumps around a bit when the chrono is started and stopped - something I understand to be characteristic of the movement.

I like both automatic and quartz movements, but I will never be convinced that automatic movements are anywhere close to quartz in terms of reliability.

-FLX

veilsidegs3 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:08 am

agreed with driver8 as well....but dont let it leave a bad taste in your mouth about the blackbird...its a fine piece and the movement is spectacular....I hoe it works out for you!

Driver8 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:49 am

ffeelliixx wrote:

I will never be convinced that automatic movements are anywhere close to quartz in terms of reliability.

That's an accurate comment because, on balance, automatics won't be as reliable as quartz. That's a fact, but also one that's not too hard to imagine when you look at the difference in technology that goes into the two types of watch.

Quartz has very few moving parts when compared to an auto. As I'm sure you know, in very simple terms, the oscilliations in a quartz watch are generated by passing an electric current from the battery through the piece of quartz which vibrates. These regular vibrations are then transferred into circular motion for the hands. In an auto, there are NUMEROUS moving parts, all of which have friction to some degree, need to be lubricated (with oils that degrade over time), are susceptible to the effects of magnetism, etc, etc. So as with anything the more moving parts there are, the more there is to go wrong.

If you like the positive aspects of automatic watches, then you have to accept that the risk of problems is probably greater than with quartz. It's just the nature of the beast I'm afraid..... but one that I am more than happy to live with.

Roffensian · **Posted:** Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:41 am

Driver8 wrote:

ffeelliixx wrote:

I will never be convinced that automatic movements are anywhere close to quartz in terms of reliability.

That's an accurate comment because, on balance, automatics won't be as reliable as quartz. That's a fact, but also one that's not too hard to imagine when you look at the difference in technology that goes into the two types of watch.

Quartz has very few moving parts when compared to an auto. As I'm sure you know, in very simple terms, the oscilliations in a quartz watch are generated by passing an electric current from the battery through the piece of quartz which vibrates. These regular vibrations are then transferred into circular motion for the hands. In an auto, there are NUMEROUS moving parts, all of which have friction to some degree, need to be lubricated (with oils that degrade over time), are susceptible to the effects of magnetism, etc, etc. So as with anything the more moving parts there are, the more there is to go wrong.

If you like the positive aspects of automatic watches, then you have to accept that the risk of problems is probably greater than with quartz. It's just the nature of the beast I'm afraid..... but one that I am more than happy to live with.

Absolutely.

And while automatics are more susceptible to problems simply because of their nature, they are also simpler problems to solve. Fixing a problem in a quartz watch may well involve replacing the entire movement, as opposed to servicing and / or replacing one or two parts.

It's also relatively easy to fix a 60+ year old mechanical watch, but as owners are now finding, an early to mid 80s quartz Breitling that has problems is probably not repairable because the parts are unique to the watch and no longer produced.

aleister · **Posted:** Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:01 am

Sorry to hear about your experience, but as Driver and the rest have said - give them a second chance! Especially with the discount you seem to get...

stowebird · **Posted:** Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:32 am

All your reponses have been helpful and are much appreciated. While I am pretty unsophisticated on the subject of watches, I instinctively have to agree with the line of comment saying that quartz will inevitably be more reliable. The idea that has kept me interested in mechanical movements is that, in theory, one could go into the wilderness and live for years with a mechanical watch (admittedly a purely theoretical scenario in my case) and not have to worry about going into civilization to get a battery changed. Or, more practically, one can go on a long trip without worrying whether the battery in his quartz watch has enough life left in it to get back. (I did have one battery failure on my Aerospace in the middle of a trip, although the battery life of the watch was, in general, great.) Presumably, the maintenance needed for a top-end mechanical watch -- oiling, etc. -- is not as frequent as battery replacements for a quartz. Or am I wrong about that? In any event, thanks again for the responses. I am very likely to go ahead and buy a Blackbird.

Roffensian · **Posted:** Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:53 am

stowebird wrote:

All your reponses have been helpful and are much appreciated. While I am pretty unsophisticated on the subject of watches, I instinctively have to agree with the line of comment saying that quartz will inevitably be more reliable. The idea that has kept me interested in mechanical movements is that, in theory, one could go into the wilderness and live for years with a mechanical watch (admittedly a purely theoretical scenario in my case) and not have to worry about going into civilization to get a battery changed. Or, more practically, one can go on a long trip without worrying whether the battery in his quartz watch has enough life left in it to get back. (I did have one battery failure on my Aerospace in the middle of a trip, although the battery life of the watch was, in general, great.) Presumably, the maintenance needed for a top-end mechanical watch -- oiling, etc. -- is not as frequent as battery replacements for a quartz. Or am I wrong about that? In any event, thanks again for the responses. I am very likely to go ahead and buy a Blackbird.

Breitling recommend a service every 5 years, if you go on the basis that it really only needs addressing when it can't keep time accurately, generally 6 - 7 years is fine. The exception would be watches that are used for serious diving where you will want to get the gaskets replaced wvery 1 - 2 years to ensure that the waterproof qualities are maintained.

Driver8 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:55 am

stowebird wrote:

All your reponses have been helpful and are much appreciated. While I am pretty unsophisticated on the subject of watches, I instinctively have to agree with the line of comment saying that quartz will inevitably be more reliable. The idea that has kept me interested in mechanical movements is that, in theory, one could go into the wilderness and live for years with a mechanical watch (admittedly a purely theoretical scenario in my case) and not have to worry about going into civilization to get a battery changed. Or, more practically, one can go on a long trip without worrying whether the battery in his quartz watch has enough life left in it to get back. (I did have one battery failure on my Aerospace in the middle of a trip, although the battery life of the watch was, in general, great.) Presumably, the maintenance needed for a top-end mechanical watch -- oiling, etc. -- is not as frequent as battery replacements for a quartz. Or am I wrong about that? In any event, thanks again for the responses. I am very likely to go ahead and buy a Blackbird.

It sounds to me that you're from the "ultimate reliability camp" as far as watches are concerned, which would indicates a preference towards quartz, and that is absolutely fine - people naturally tend to gravitate primarily towards one camp or the other.

I like to think of watches like cars - you have German engineering and reliability but (some say!) a lack of soul at one end, with something like Alfa Romeo at the other - passion, soul, but potentially lower reliability. It's the same for watches. (Bizarrely while I prefer the Alfa Romeo's of the watch world, my actual car is a BMW!!)

In terms of servicing a watch, Breitling recommend fully servicing an auto every 4 to 5 years, but in practice, it's a case of if it ain't broke (i.e. if it keeps good time) don't fix it. A quartz battery tends to last 2 to 3 years depending on the model.

And as Roff said, over time replacement parts for quartz watches become harder to come by as they are very specific parts. Autos use more generic parts (plus centuries old technology) so can be repaired more easily.

RJRJRJ · **Posted:** Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:46 am

Driver8 wrote:

A quartz battery tends to last 2 to 3 years depending on the model..

The description of the Colt states that it has an 8 year battery.

ffeelliixx · **Posted:** Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:29 am

Here's a link to a post of a pilot who traded in his Navitimer for an Airwolf due to reliability issues. A number of posts follow from other owners regarding problems with the Navitimer line and a discussion of quartz v. auto.

http://breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sc&start=0

-FLX

g-star · **Posted:** Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:37 am

Sorry to hear about your predicament. I went on a few forums myself to see if any members had problems with the Blackbird. As was stated, there were very few complaints in comparison to the amount of Breitling owners on the forum. I hope your problem gets resolved.

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A disconcerting incident

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