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| My Breitling Bentley A25363 was ripped off by PayPal/Ebay https://www.breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35100 |
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| Author: | rippedoffbypaypal [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | My Breitling Bentley A25363 was ripped off by PayPal/Ebay |
So I listed my Breitling for Bentley A25363 on eBay which included all original box contents. I sold it for $4,300 with free shipping. I shipped the Breitling watch with the certificate showing the serial number that matched the case's serial number along with all original warranty cards and original box contents. I used UPS with $10,000 insurance and tracking as PayPal suggests. The buyer had perfect feedback, verified and confirmed shipping through PayPal. Upon receipt of the watch, the buyer immediately questioned the authenticity of the watch (despite serial numbers aligning perfectly on the watch and certificate) and stated he'd be taking the watch to Breitling (store) for evaluation and if found to be fake, he'd open a dispute with PayPal to get his money back. I knew right there I was being scammed since I knew I sent an authentic watch that I originally paid $9K to get from an authorize re-seller (Touneau). Withan an hour, he emails again stating that the watch he presented to Breitling was a replica and that he had a letter written for $100 stating this. He asked me for a refund, and I said I'd grant a refund if he returned the watch in its exact form sent to him which included my watch with the serial number matching the certificate sent to him. He refused to send it back for a quick refund and instead opened a dispute with PayPal claiming I sold a replica. Interesting, right? If you want your money back immediately, wouldn't you gladly send back what you were sent, versus refusing to send it and wait as many as 30 days to get a refund from PayPal if they ruled in his favor? I immediately called the store he went to and asked them if someone came in their store that day with a fake Breitling they bought from eBay. They said yes. I then asked if the watched was the model A25363 with the serial number of my watch. The watchmaker said the watch they were presented had no serial number nor did it even look like my watch that I listed, sold, and am on record as buying from Breitling's authorized re-seller, Tourneau. I told them how dangerous their $100 letters are when put in the wrong hands like this and that it could be used to defraud me via PayPal. I said they should change their policy or at least use a disclaimer that their letters cannot be used in PayPal disputes since they can't verify if the watch presented to their store was the watch shipped to the buyer. They run the risk of defrauding their own customers in this case. I immediately called PayPal to explain to them that I was being defrauded. They re-assured me that the buyer would have to return my item to me before any such refund would be granted for anyone. I felt comfortable with that considering I knew he'd send back the replica he presented Breitling and I could prove that it wasn't what I sent in the first place. Another PayPal representative said this as well. The dispute took 3 weeks for a decision. The buyer submitted their $100 letter without showing me or PayPal the watch they took for evaluation. I provided everything from my original receipt showing I'm on record as owning the Authentic Breitling that I sold on eBay and shipped with full documentation. I also showed the eBay messages between myself and the buyer showing how the buyer had his plan mapped out before he even had the watch evaluated while ignoring my messages for him to view the authenticity certificate and the case. Even the retail stickers were still on the box reinforcing everything including the serial numbers and model numbers. The decision was ruled in favor of the BUYER which says I sold a counterfeit watch. I was docked $4300 plus another $107 so PayPal could still get their fee. The worst part is PayPal lied to me about their policy. If a buyer claims an item is counterfeit, they DO NOT have to return the item first before a refund is granted. This eliminates any chance of me proving return fraud. The only evidence used was a letter the buyer paid $100 to acquire which evaluated a watch that was clearly not the watch I sent. PayPal didn't even factor the chain of custody and how the watch shipped to the buyer's shipping address could have been switched in between UPS signature and his store visit (which is what happened). Simply put, do not sell anything on eBay as buyers can get away with fraud without providing proof since buyers keep eBay and PayPal in business. No news here, I'm sure. Anyone know what else I can do in this case? I've filed complaints with the FBI and appealed the decision for the time being. However, PayPal doesn't care since their user agreements protects them. Not only did I provide evidence I owned the authentic watch in question, but I also had UPS vouch for my shipment. Still no help. The buyers have all the power in these situations. The same company (Breitling) I helped support has unintentionally aided in the defrauding of a proven and established customer of theirs all because of $100. I'm communicating with Breitling corporate hoping that they'll contact PayPal to rescind the letter in question since the letter was not intended to be used in a PayPal dispute since it does not establish what was in the box upon delivery. If the watch was shipped to Breitling and evaluated on the spot, that's the only way this letter could be admissible. So far, nobody is eager to help me even though I've spend $15K through them thus far. I'm not looking for Breitling to take my side, I'm just asking them to remove themselves from the equation altogether since their evaluations are not intended for PayPal disputes. If I showed up to their store with a replica and asked for a letter so I could defraud someone on eBay with it, they certainly wouldn't write it up knowing that. In summary, I've been defrauded by PayPal/eBay and indirectly defrauded by Breitling as PayPal will somehow accept their evaluation letters as proof that a counterfeit watch was in the box upon delivery despite the delivery being made to a completely different location. Sad, right? This money was going towards medication to save my Mother's life as well. Nobody realizes the cause and effect of their actions. If anyone has any advice, please let me know. I'm powerless it seems even though I'm a proven owner of the watch in question and even spent $200 to ship the watch safely all so some thief could manipulate PayPal's scam encouraging policies. Should I post the serial number in case someone Googles this serial number some day and finds out it's stolen? Thanks for letting me vent. |
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| Author: | Time Bandit [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Breitling Bentley A25363 was ripped off by PayPal/Eba |
Now that's a nightmare right there! The first thing that comes to mind is whether the Paypal people you contacted were the same ones who played a roll in the judgment, or was it just some kid flipping through their policy to make a decision. I think I'd try to work my way up the PP ladder and talk to someone who counts, and maybe even suggest something must have gone wrong in the communication and decision because this is obviously fraud. What I worry about is the fact the decision was made and them sticking to their guns no matter what, and in hind sight it would have been nice to have got the police in right away. I sold both my Blackbird and Super avenger on Ebay and even though I felt i did things right, being a long time buyer/seller and Paypal user I know there's an element of risk. The problem is they made it way too easy for that guy and he is going to do it again! |
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| Author: | FEAR [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Breitling Bentley A25363 was ripped off by PayPal/Eba |
not the first time I've seen that one....makes me sick |
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| Author: | rgilbert24 [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Breitling Bentley A25363 was ripped off by PayPal/Eba |
I am so naive in that I would not have believed this could happen. Why would anyone sell an expensive watch through EBay after learning about this? |
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| Author: | geomax [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Breitling Bentley A25363 was ripped off by PayPal/Eba |
This makes me sick |
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| Author: | Novacastrian [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Breitling Bentley A25363 was ripped off by PayPal/Eba |
Haven't we had a very similar situation only a few months back? This is the second time we've heard of a buyer substituting a fake for the real watch they received and then PP siding with the buyer. My condolences mate, that's pretty horrible. |
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| Author: | Quackers [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Breitling Bentley A25363 was ripped off by PayPal/Eba |
Wow, that is an eye opener! It's horrible.I hope you get some satisfaction somehow. |
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| Author: | nr123 [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Breitling Bentley A25363 was ripped off by PayPal/Eba |
Sounds very similar to something that did happen a couple months ago, so sorry to hear that, especially about your mom, hope she gets better. |
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| Author: | mfserge [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Breitling Bentley A25363 was ripped off by PayPal/Eba |
This isn't the first time we have heard about honest sellers being defrauded by a buyer on ebay/paypal. The problem is that you (the seller) have no proof that what you shipped in the box was the actual (authentic) watch you sent him photos of. While I believe you 100% that you sent an authentic watch, there is no way for a seller to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Is it possible that you sent him photos of an authentic watch but shipped him a $50 fake? YES, do I believe you did that? Absolutely NOT. It always comes down to he said/she said and usually paypal and ebay rule in favor of the buyer. Ask ebay and paypal if the buyer has a history of filing claims against sellers. If you had your watch listed on your home owners policy or other insurance policy, ask them if there is anything you can do since you watch was basically stolen from you. The dealer he took the watch to did nothing wrong, they verified a fake watch. Breitling can't do anything to assist as it's not their problem. Buying and selling in the pre-owned market carries a lot of risks and it's really unfortunate what happened to you. Dishonest people like that should have their nads cut off. Also, it would be helpful to have the ebay user's ID posted here. |
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| Author: | Quackers [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Breitling Bentley A25363 was ripped off by PayPal/Eba |
Name and shame! |
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| Author: | zubaird [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Breitling Bentley A25363 was ripped off by PayPal/Eba |
Very sorry to hear. I hope the situation gets corrected. Is there any legal recourse you can take against the buyer directly??? |
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| Author: | sharkman [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Breitling Bentley A25363 was ripped off by PayPal/Eba |
AGAIN?!? PM me the username from fleabay. |
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| Author: | MacApple [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Breitling Bentley A25363 was ripped off by PayPal/Eba |
I am sorry to hear your story, this angers me to no end how someone could deliberately scam you. I will never sell a watch on shitbay or take paypal for a watch. I would report your watch stolen to Breitling should the watch be sent to Breitling for servicing. |
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| Author: | MacApple [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Breitling Bentley A25363 was ripped off by PayPal/Eba |
sharkman wrote: AGAIN?!? PM me the username from fleabay. Get him Shark!!!!! |
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| Author: | Quackers [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Breitling Bentley A25363 was ripped off by PayPal/Eba |
MacApple wrote: I would report your watch stolen to Breitling should the watch be sent to Breitling for servicing. That's a very good idea. I've just cancelled my paypal account. Never again! |
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