The Breitling Watch Source Forums :: View topic - Windrider Chronomat does not retain value?

According to the Breitling model database on Don Indiano's great site, the price of a steel Chronomat in 2002 was 3380 euro.

When I search on Chrono24 for used Chronomats from this period I see prices of about 1800-2000 euro. So if you would sell it or trade it in, a jeweler would even offer less.

I thought Breitlings would retain much beter value?

I noticed that many American forum members mention they only buy a watch from a dealer if they get a discount. That's a good thing, but not everyone asks (or likes to ask) for discount.

A new Submariner ref 14060 (the one without date) can be had for 4500 euro. You can find them used from the period 2000-2003 for about 3500 euro. That's a 22% depreciation.

As for the Chronomat, it's a depreciation of about 47%!

As for the Chronomat, it's a depreciation of about 47%!

Apples and oranges. Comparing Rolex resale to Breitling or most other brand's resale is not a valid comparison. Rolex holds value better due mainly to their marketing and distribution strategies.

It's not Breitling model or brand specfific. Nearly industry wide.

Bad_Karma wrote:

As for the Chronomat, it's a depreciation of about 47%!

Not to make light of your concern, but what's the problem? If you're buying pre-owned, the original owner has already taken the hit on depreciation, which actually works better for you. Or are you considering selling?

Bad_Karma wrote:

As for the Chronomat, it's a depreciation of about 47%!

JacksonStone wrote:

Bad_Karma wrote:

As for the Chronomat, it's a depreciation of about 47%!

Just wanted to know its value.
I haven't checked prices of the Navitimer but it makes me feel the Chronomat is not a very popular model.
My next watch will definitely be pre-owned.

A lot of variables here, I think.
Breitling isn't alone in this, of course. Take a look over at TZ or the Bay, and compare new to used. For example, UN really takes a hit, it seems. I haven't ever held much hope of making money on a watch. I could, easily, on the GMT I bought 9 years ago, but that's just an exception. If you are really money-conscious and want to flip every few years, I think the best you can do is try to buy it as inexpensively as you can (pre-owned) and hope you can stay within a couple hundred dollars when you re-sell. That eliminates buying new.

OOPS, think I just misread, too early. Windrider Chronomat might be the larger size. Even then, what did that sell for nine years ago, low 4s?

Author:	Bad_Karma [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:21 am ]
Post subject:	Windrider Chronomat does not retain value?
According to the Breitling model database on Don Indiano's great site, the price of a steel Chronomat in 2002 was 3380 euro. When I search on Chrono24 for used Chronomats from this period I see prices of about 1800-2000 euro. So if you would sell it or trade it in, a jeweler would offer even less. I thought Breitlings would retain much beter value?

Author:	Roffensian [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Chronomat does not retain value?
Bad_Karma wrote: According to the Breitling model database on Don Indiano's great site, the price of a steel Chronomat in 2002 was 3380 euro. When I search on Chrono24 for used Chronomats from this period I see prices of about 1800-2000 euro. So if you would sell it or trade it in, a jeweler would even offer less. I thought Breitlings would retain much beter value? You can get a new watch from an AD for 25%+ discount, so not much chance of them keeping their value when 9 years old. Very few watches will retain value over that period. Breitling can appear worse than some because of the fact that the list price doesn't bear that much resemblance to the real selling price new, but most brands have similar 'real' losses in percentage value.

Author:	Bad_Karma [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Chronomat does not retain value?
I noticed that many American forum members mention they only buy a watch from a dealer if they get a discount. That's a good thing, but not everyone asks (or likes to ask) for discount. A new Submariner ref 14060 (the one without date) can be had for 4500 euro. You can find them used from the period 2000-2003 for about 3500 euro. That's a 22% depreciation. As for the Chronomat, it's a depreciation of about 47%!

Author:	sharkman [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Chronomat does not retain value?
Bad_Karma wrote: I noticed that many American forum members mention they only buy a watch from a dealer if they get a discount. That's a good thing, but not everyone asks (or likes to ask) for discount. A new Submariner ref 14060 (the one without date) can be had for 4500 euro. You can find them used from the period 2000-2003 for about 3500 euro. That's a 22% depreciation. As for the Chronomat, it's a depreciation of about 47%! Apples and oranges. Comparing Rolex resale to Breitling or most other brand's resale is not a valid comparison. Rolex holds value better due mainly to their marketing and distribution strategies. It's not Breitling model or brand specfific. Nearly industry wide.

Author:	JacksonStone [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Chronomat does not retain value?
Bad_Karma wrote: As for the Chronomat, it's a depreciation of about 47%! Not to make light of your concern, but what's the problem? If you're buying pre-owned, the original owner has already taken the hit on depreciation, which actually works better for you. Or are you considering selling?

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Author:	Bad_Karma [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Chronomat does not retain value?
sharkman wrote: Apples and oranges. Comparing Rolex resale to Breitling or most other brand's resale is not a valid comparison. Rolex holds value better due mainly to their marketing and distribution strategies. It's not Breitling model or brand specfific. Nearly industry wide. Must have something to do with marketing indeed! It surprises me their production rate doesn't seem to affect prices in the used watch market.

Author:	Bad_Karma [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Chronomat does not retain value?
JacksonStone wrote: Bad_Karma wrote: As for the Chronomat, it's a depreciation of about 47%! Not to make light of your concern, but what's the problem? If you're buying pre-owned, the original owner has already taken the hit on depreciation, which actually works better for you. Or are you considering selling? Just wanted to know its value. I haven't checked prices of the Navitimer but it makes me feel the Chronomat is not a very popular model. My next watch will definitely be pre-owned.

Author:	FEAR [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Chronomat does not retain value?
With breitling reducing the dealer discount now for the second time, the discounts to the end consumer will go down. The daysbof 30-35 off have been gone for a while and the days of 25 off are now done too. Add the stupid price increases to the mix and the pre owned market picks up some. I know at least 5 people who bought new super avengers for anywhere from 2900 to 3500 who sold them used for the $3200-3500 range. Not all dogs all the time.

Author:	jjalcede [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Chronomat does not retain value?
JacksonStone wrote: Bad_Karma wrote: As for the Chronomat, it's a depreciation of about 47%! Not to make light of your concern, but what's the problem? If you're buying pre-owned, the original owner has already taken the hit on depreciation, which actually works better for you. Or are you considering selling? That's pretty much where I stand too- including cars. If the watch is 5-6k new but you can pick up a like-new used one for 3800, that's a no brainer. But some people (Jeremy) don't want anything used by anyone before it becomes theirs. When I bought my Denali and drove it off the lot I could literally hear money going up in flames. I vowed to never buy another new car again- let someone else eat the loss of value. Luckily, the bulk of the depreciation happens mostly at the point where it turns from "new" to "used"... and this seems to be the case with these watches too, no?

Author:	Scott [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Chronomat does not retain value?
A lot of variables here, I think. Using my highly unscientific, eyeball and some experience-based research, some watches have suffered because of size changes. The poster just referred to a Chronomat, so I'm assuming it's the smaller, 39-40 mm model. I'm sure age has something to do with it, but I do think the change from 39-40 mm to 43 mm in the Chronomat in, what was it, 2002 or 3(?), has made the smaller Chronomats less valuable. I think that even at Rolex, older Datejusts, at 36mm, have started to take a beating. I initially thought that the Rolex fanatics were upset about the DJII and the new Sub and GMT because they feared the same problem. However, in the case of the older DJs, I think they were going down anyway--along with the size, there's just too many of them. As for the sub, I think it's holding okay because the change in the watch was moderate. As for the old GMT-- I think their value has gone up or at least maintained. People like the idea that you can change the bezels. Take a look at the Navitimers. I think the Worlds are taking a bigger hit than the standard Navi or even specialty 43mm editions because of their size. I think the B01 models will too, for at least a while, because Navitimer buyers are used to thinking it costs X dollars when now, the price is way up. Breitling isn't alone in this, of course. Take a look over at TZ or the Bay, and compare new to used. For example, UN really takes a hit, it seems. I haven't ever held much hope of making money on a watch. I could, easily, on the GMT I bought 9 years ago, but that's just an exception. If you are really money-conscious and want to flip every few years, I think the best you can do is try to buy it as inexpensively as you can (pre-owned) and hope you can stay within a couple hundred dollars when you re-sell. That eliminates buying new. By the way, to the automotive comment, the used market here is nuts right now, low supply and much higher prices. I confirmed this with a wholesaler I know. I'm starting to look for my daughter and its ridiculous.

Author:	Scott [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Chronomat does not retain value?
OOPS, think I just misread, too early. Windrider Chronomat might be the larger size. Even then, what did that sell for nine years ago, low 4s?

Author:	sharkman [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Chronomat does not retain value?
Bad_Karma wrote: JacksonStone wrote: Bad_Karma wrote: As for the Chronomat, it's a depreciation of about 47%! Not to make light of your concern, but what's the problem? If you're buying pre-owned, the original owner has already taken the hit on depreciation, which actually works better for you. Or are you considering selling? Just wanted to know its value. I haven't checked prices of the Navitimer but it makes me feel the Chronomat is not a very popular model. My next watch will definitely be pre-owned. Not correct. The Chronomat Evo was Breitling's most popular model for several years according to Breitling. I haven't seen much difference on the resale figures across the spectrum of models. Still a 2 year old mint Chronomat Evo that retailed for about $6K will resale for about $3K.

Author:	sharkman [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Chronomat does not retain value?
Scott wrote: A lot of variables here, I think. Breitling isn't alone in this, of course. Take a look over at TZ or the Bay, and compare new to used. For example, UN really takes a hit, it seems. I haven't ever held much hope of making money on a watch. I could, easily, on the GMT I bought 9 years ago, but that's just an exception. If you are really money-conscious and want to flip every few years, I think the best you can do is try to buy it as inexpensively as you can (pre-owned) and hope you can stay within a couple hundred dollars when you re-sell. That eliminates buying new. Most brands take essentially the same hit. A few, notably Rolex, depreciate very litlle and some even appreciate. BUT MOST that as of a year ago could be had new at 25-30% discount, including some heavy hitters like JLC, are not so hot on resale. If I could buy a new $10K JLC for $7K, why would I want a 3 year old one for $5.5-6K? As FEAR indicated, the calculus is starting to change based upon current economic realities and the changing value of USDs.

Author:	Bad_Karma [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Chronomat does not retain value?
Scott wrote: OOPS, think I just misread, too early. Windrider Chronomat might be the larger size. Even then, what did that sell for nine years ago, low 4s? The one I was referring to is indeed the 39 mm version: http://www.breitlingsource.com/watch_de ... er_72.html Current Chronomat is even 43.7mm

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Author:	JacksonStone [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Chronomat does not retain value?
Point of clarification: Windrider is the range. The Chronomat is just one model in the Windrider range. Referring to a Windrider Chronomat is no more exact than referring merely to a Chronomat, and gives no indication of size, model year, etc. (Although, this year, Breitling is doing away with its ranges, going now solely by model, so the Windrider range is evidently no more.) If you want to be more specific, you can use the model number (a13352, for example, refers to a stainless Chronomat from the early 2000s up through 2004), or other indicators, such as Evolution, B01, etc. For the record, the Chronomat Evolution was introduced in 2005, and the prior-generation Chronomat was discontinued the same year. For those curious about size, the pre-Evolution Chronomat was typically 39mm. The Evolution was 43.7mm. However, other pre-Evo Windrider models showed the trend toward larger size: the Crosswind was 42.7mm, and the Crosswind Special was 43.7mm. As Shark pointed out, attempting to infer popularity based on resale - or vice versa - won't get you very far. While to some people the pre-Evo Chronomat may appear dated due to the newer models' larger sizes, to others that makes it more attractive. Also, prior to the Evolution, the Chronomat had straight lugs (as did all Windriders); those disappeared with the Evolution, making the pre-Evo Chronomats distinctive, and more attractive to some people. To others, not so much. The general rule with Breitlings, as with many other brands, is that it will sell pre-owned at roughly 50% of the retail price. When you consider that actual purchase price when new is only about 80% of the retail price, that makes for about 38% depreciation from the actual purchase price. As with all general rules, there are exceptions. If the pre-owned watch is still fairly new, and has a fair amount of factory warranty left, that will help with its resale. Also, if the watch model has recently been discontinued, and/or has seen price increases since the time of initial purchase, that could also positively affect resale.