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PURCHASED! used Navitimer A23322- need advice
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Author:  jjalcede [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  PURCHASED! used Navitimer A23322- need advice
I've got my eye on a Navitimer that I found on craigslist. The seller lost the certificate and I know from what I've read here that certificate is worth far more than it's weight in gold. Would you recommend to never buy a watch that doesn't have papers? Is it bad judgement to think I can make the 3 hour drive to San Antonio to the seller and take it to an AD to verify it is authentic? Does anyone know a knowledgeable AD in the San Antonio area?

By looking at the pictures, can you tell anything about this watch? Any ideas on it's value?
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Author:  mfserge [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purchasing used Navitimer A23322- need advice
Other's opinions may differ but for me 'no papers' = no sale!!!! I rather have a complete set JUST in case I decide to sell it down the road which I rarely ever do. :lingsrock:
Author:  jjalcede [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purchasing used Navitimer A23322- need advice
Understood. But at what price point is it worth going to an AD for authentication and sending the watch off to Breitling myself for replacement papers? Assuming it's real of course, and that is where my questions really come in. What do the knowledgeable members of this community think about this watch? What do you all think about taking it to an AD? What do you think it's worth without papers and what it would be worth if I did the leg work to get the replacement papers after the watch was purchased?
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Author:  Roffensian [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purchasing used Navitimer A23322- need advice
The watch is real, pricing guidelines are covered in question 2 here - http://www.breitlingsource.com/articles_faq.shtml#8

It looks as though the only paperwork missing is the COSC cert and the warranty booklet, if the warranty has expired then that's a judgment call as to whether it matters. The COSC can be ordered through an AD for about $50.
Author:  jjalcede [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purchasing used Navitimer A23322- need advice
I am so amazed that you know the watch is real. It shows how very little I know about this subject and how much I have to learn.

Can you please explain to me what it is that you see that tells you it is real? Are there any tips as to what I should look for when I actually see "this" watch in person?

As per my recent experience- seeing photos online and seeing the watch in person are very different things. How do I know the watch I see when I make this 3 hour drive is the same watch that is pictured?

To anyone's knowledge, is there such thing as a functioning replica? Will the buttons work, etc?

I'm sorry for all of my questions but I really do want to become more educated on these watches as Jeremy and I have quite the list of "wanted Breitlings" piling up...
Author:  czar [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Purchasing used Navitimer A23322- need advice
Yes, there are functioning replicas. If you Google you'll find them, and I believe BreitlingSource has some YouTube videos up that showcase some functioning replicas.

I suggest one of two courses for your first major purchase, and this is exactly what I did:

1. Find a respected AD who gives a discount. I've personally dealt with FEAR but there are others. You can get a great deal on a new watch that will rival the cost of a used one on eBay.

2. Find a great deal on eBay or Craigslist but do the exchange at an AD. I bought my second Breitling this way.

The third option I won't recommend to you based on your prior experience is to find a seller on here or another board who has an excellent reputation.

I think option 1 or 2 would serve you well. Either way you'll get a great deal and know you've got the real goods.

Good luck.
Author:  nr123 [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purchasing used Navitimer A23322- need advice
Tell him he owes you one of your choice, you stood up for him quite well in a previous post. Gained my respect (granted I hardly write anything, so my respect doesn't amount to much, but...still).
Author:  jjalcede [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purchasing used Navitimer A23322- need advice
nr123 wrote:
Tell him he owes you one of your choice, you stood up for him quite well in a previous post. Gained my respect (granted I hardly write anything, so my respect doesn't amount to much, but...still).


LOL I have already chosen mine, it's just a matter of finding it... which is proving difficult but I will not give up!
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Author:  mfserge [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purchasing used Navitimer A23322- need advice
With your recent unfortunate experience why don't you just called an Authorized Dealer and negotiate a good deal a brand new piece?? I'm sure you can get 20% to 25% off of a brand new watch if you call one of our forum sponsored AD's.

There are some replicas out there that are so good that you would NEVER know are fake. The first and most obvious tell tale sign is the date wheel is sunken far below the dial. In thenphotonyou posted you can see that the date wheel is nice and flush, no gap between the dial and date.

Just buy new so you don't get scammed.
Author:  Roffensian [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purchasing used Navitimer A23322- need advice
jjalcede wrote:
I am so amazed that you know the watch is real. It shows how very little I know about this subject and how much I have to learn.

Can you please explain to me what it is that you see that tells you it is real? Are there any tips as to what I should look for when I actually see "this" watch in person?

As per my recent experience- seeing photos online and seeing the watch in person are very different things. How do I know the watch I see when I make this 3 hour drive is the same watch that is pictured?

To anyone's knowledge, is there such thing as a functioning replica? Will the buttons work, etc?

I'm sorry for all of my questions but I really do want to become more educated on these watches as Jeremy and I have quite the list of "wanted Breitlings" piling up...



Well there's no substitute for experience and I have seen pictures of and handled a lot of Breitlings in my time. There are replicas of some models that are scary good and where I would not be prepared to call it on just a few photos, but this model isn't one of them. As mentioned a lot of Navitimer fakes have a sunken date wheel - a noticeable gap between the dial and the date wheel below it, but the sliderule is generally not as refined and the bezel is not right. Also, the caseback engravings are nowhere near as sharp (if they aren't laser etched). Take a browse through the replica section and you'll see many of the different Navitimer fakes - viewforum.php?f=9. You'll also see that in reent months we have been posting the details that are reported to eBay so you ca see why they are identified as fakes.

In terms of what to look for the most obvious is that the serial numbers should match between the top right corner of the COSC certificate, the written / printed serial number in the waranty book (not the perforated one) and the caseback of the watch. Take photos along with you and compare the actual piece to the photos, checking all details.

The advice to go through an AD until you become more knowledgeable is sound, Govbergs in PA via jnelson3097 and Provident in FL via FEAR are both trusted forum sponsors.
Author:  jjalcede [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purchasing used Navitimer A23322- need advice
I do intend on purchasing new. This was not a planned purchase. A friend of ours that is new to Breitling like us but has the same growing interest as well, sent me a link to this watch. The seller was asking $3500 and after a month relisted it for $2500 or best offer. Jeremy offered him $2300 and he said if we could come tomorrow it was ours. He offered to meet at an AD as well... Tourneau or Moretti's in San Antonio, TX

It seems like a really good deal... maybe too good to be true... so that is why I am asking if taking it to an AD is the best way to insure the watch is real and that we don't get taken for a ride (outside of passing up the deal all together).

This is simply about a good deal as this wasn't even a watch on our list. We are skeptical for sure but I suppose it seems as if we are more optimistic that an AD will give good news and we will have paid an unbelievable price for this watch. Jeremy is such a sucker for good deals... the best way to look at it is - if it were 20 below with 6 ft of snow and ice went on sale for 75% off, he would make his way to the store to stock up on the deal.

It is what it is...

Thank you for pointing out one of the things to look for in a replica. I would love to learn more...
Author:  Roffensian [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purchasing used Navitimer A23322- need advice
jjalcede wrote:
I do intend on purchasing new. This was not a planned purchase. A friend of ours that is new to Breitling like us but has the same growing interest as well, sent me a link to this watch. The seller was asking $3500 and after a month relisted it for $2500 or best offer. Jeremy offered him $2300 and he said if we could come tomorrow it was ours. He offered to meet at an AD as well... Tourneau or Moretti's in San Antonio, TX

It seems like a really good deal... maybe too good to be true... so that is why I am asking if taking it to an AD is the best way to insure the watch is real and that we don't get taken for a ride (outside of passing up the deal all together).

This is simply about a good deal as this wasn't even a watch on our list. We are skeptical for sure but I suppose it seems as if we are more optimistic that an AD will give good news and we will have paid an unbelievable price for this watch. Jeremy is such a sucker for good deals... the best way to look at it is - if it were 20 below with 6 ft of snow and ice went on sale for 75% off, he would make his way to the store to stock up on the deal.

It is what it is...

Thank you for pointing out one of the things to look for in a replica. I would love to learn more...



Don't want to teach you how to suck eggs, but it's only a deal if it's something you want.

Be wary of ADs, some are very knowledgeable, some hire people for little more than minimum wage plus commissions because they couldn't get a job at the clothing store next dor.

If you use an AD to verify that the watch is real then go to one with a watchmaker and have the watchmaker inspect it. They should also be prepared to show you the movement including matching serial number (although they can be hard to see on some movements).
Author:  jjalcede [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purchasing used Navitimer A23322- need advice
Are there internal serial numbers that match the one on the case backing? You know, to make sure it's not just a number etched on the back?
Author:  Roffensian [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purchasing used Navitimer A23322- need advice
jjalcede wrote:
Are there internal serial numbers that match the one on the case backing? You know, to make sure it's not just a number etched on the back?



Yes, as I just said.
Author:  jjalcede [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Purchasing used Navitimer A23322- need advice
Quote:
Don't want to teach you how to suck eggs, but it's only a deal if it's something you want.


Things quickly become what Jeremy wants when they are a good deal. Bet I could get him to buy and wear a truck load of pink flip flops if they were 5 cents a pair.

Thank you for the info on the internal serial number (sorry I posted the last question before reading your post). We will contact the 2 listed AD on Breitling's site to see who has a watchmaker in office. Thank you for the advice.
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