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I was messing around taking some photos of some of my collection and decided to take some lume shots...well to my amazement some of my lumes have burned out. It seems both my Chronomats have dead lumes and my SOP is on the weak side as they do not hold a charge for much time. On the other hand my Omega looks really cool when charged up as does my Colt, but what is the procedure to cure dead lumes and what kind of cost is involved?

I was told by my AD that fitting new hands is part of the standard service because they lose their lume over time (this being for the newer models without the radioactive element), but that won't account for the spots on the dial...

If you want to get a watch relumed you can either to back to the company - Breitling will simply fit a new dial and hands - or you can get a dial relumed by one of the many aftermarker modifiers out there. I think International Watch Works will do it for you quite cost effectively.

Driver8 wrote:

If the dial is unique - say part of a limited edition - it stands to reason one wouldn't want it replaced, but would want it relumed instead. Does Breitling (or any other manufacturer, for that matter) do any reluming, or is it an all-or-nothing thing with the whole dial? If the latter, the likes of IWW would seem to be a no-brainer.

Along the same lines, what happens if the hands need to be replaced, but the current model hands don't match the hands on the watch you need serviced (e.g., it's an older model)? Does Breitling keep older parts on hand, or would you end up with a Frankenwatch?

I don't see that as a frankenwatch.

We'll agree to see things differently. The idea of a frankenwatch is (to me) a watch that has been assembled by someone other than the manufacturer from parts of multiple watches in order to create something that it isn't.

...though I may be totally wrong.

Author:	Montexn [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Burnt out Lumes
I was messing around taking some photos of some of my collection and decided to take some lume shots...well to my amazement some of my lumes have burned out. It seems both my Chronomats have dead lumes and my SOP is on the weak side as they do not hold a charge for much time. On the other hand my Omega looks really cool when charged up as does my Colt, but what is the procedure to cure dead lumes and what kind of cost is involved?

Author:	Driver8 [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Burnt out Lumes
Montexn wrote: I was messing around taking some photos of some of my collection and decided to take some lume shots...well to my amazement some of my lumes have burned out. It seems both my Chronomats have dead lumes and my SOP is on the weak side as they do not hold a charge for much time. On the other hand my Omega looks really cool when charged up as does my Colt, but what is the procedure to cure dead lumes and what kind of cost is involved? Superluminova (which is based on strontium aluminate suspended in a binding substance) shouldn't degrade over time as it doesn't have a half-life like radioactive substances such as tritium, and should therefore last indefinitely. However, contact with moisture (even very very minor amounts) will degrade Superluminova over time. Additionally I've heard that constant repeated exposure to very strong light can also degrade Superluminova quicker. However, the tests that were conducted by the developing compnay found that the amount of exposure required was a lot more than you'd find under normal usage. However Superluminova hasn't been around for all that long in the grand scheme of watchmaking so no-one really knows how long it will last. I've also read that the binding substance (i.e. the material the pigment is suspended in to make the paint) can also affect the lifespan. If that substance yellows or become opaque over time it will obviously affect the luminosity of the pigment suspended in it. This may explain why some seem to last lomger than others - maybe a differing binding agent is used? If you want to get a watch relumed you can either to back to the company - Breitling will simply fit a new dial and hands - or you can get a dial relumed by one of the many aftermarker modifiers out there. I think International Watch Works will do it for you quite cost effectively.

Author:	Montexn [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Burnt out Lumes
Awesome information Driver 8, thank you for that information. My Rolex I can understand, since it's a circa 1978 and it will have to go in for a lume job. I was surprised to find that the lumes on the 2 Chronomats I have were non-responsive as they are not that old in the scheme of things. IWW's prices don't look bad at all for that process so it looks like I'll be sending some of my gizmos to the them to get relumed, rather than wait a hundred years and tons of $$ from Breitling to change out the hands and dials.

Author:	JustinFournier [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Burnt out Lumes
I've always wondered if charging the lume with an artifical UV source would produce any negative side effects. Were you using such a UV source?

Author:	anez [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Burnt out Lumes
I was told by my AD that fitting new hands is part of the standard service because they lose their lume over time (this being for the newer models without the radioactive element), but that won't account for the spots on the dial...

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Author:	Driver8 [ Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Burnt out Lumes
anez wrote: I was told by my AD that fitting new hands is part of the standard service because they lose their lume over time (this being for the newer models without the radioactive element), but that won't account for the spots on the dial... I've never heard of that being the reason because, as you say, what happens to the dial? The reason they change the hands at service time is because they are push-fit and can't properly be reused as the hole is too big. Hands are one-use items, so they replace them with brand new as they have to remove the hands to service the watch.

Author:	Roffensian [ Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Burnt out Lumes
I have a very hard time believing that superluminova 'burns out' from anything other than extreme situations - it's just far too stable and used by far too many manufacturers for such a flaw not to have come to light before (pardon the pun). We have discussed many times here before the difference between actual lume and perceived lume - what you see based on ambient light, the condition of your eyes, etc, etc, etc. I would want to get a lot more evidence before spending money on it. As Driver8 says, replacement of hands has nothing to do with the lume (non lumed hands are also replaced during servicing) and everything to do with the fact that they are friction fit.

Author:	JacksonStone [ Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Burnt out Lumes
Driver8 wrote: If you want to get a watch relumed you can either to back to the company - Breitling will simply fit a new dial and hands - or you can get a dial relumed by one of the many aftermarker modifiers out there. I think International Watch Works will do it for you quite cost effectively. If the dial is unique - say part of a limited edition - it stands to reason one wouldn't want it replaced, but would want it relumed instead. Does Breitling (or any other manufacturer, for that matter) do any reluming, or is it an all-or-nothing thing with the whole dial? If the latter, the likes of IWW would seem to be a no-brainer. Along the same lines, what happens if the hands need to be replaced, but the current model hands don't match the hands on the watch you need serviced (e.g., it's an older model)? Does Breitling keep older parts on hand, or would you end up with a Frankenwatch?

Author:	Roffensian [ Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Burnt out Lumes
JacksonStone wrote: Driver8 wrote: If you want to get a watch relumed you can either to back to the company - Breitling will simply fit a new dial and hands - or you can get a dial relumed by one of the many aftermarker modifiers out there. I think International Watch Works will do it for you quite cost effectively. If the dial is unique - say part of a limited edition - it stands to reason one wouldn't want it replaced, but would want it relumed instead. Does Breitling (or any other manufacturer, for that matter) do any reluming, or is it an all-or-nothing thing with the whole dial? If the latter, the likes of IWW would seem to be a no-brainer. Along the same lines, what happens if the hands need to be replaced, but the current model hands don't match the hands on the watch you need serviced (e.g., it's an older model)? Does Breitling keep older parts on hand, or would you end up with a Frankenwatch? As far as I know Breitling don't relume dials themselves, but it certainly can be done - if there were no 'spare' LE dials then they would likely outsource the work. In terms of hands, they keep plenty of spares, but the usual approach is to replace with the current design unless the customer specifically requests the original style - I don't see that as a frankenwatch.

Author:	JacksonStone [ Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Burnt out Lumes
Roffensian wrote: I don't see that as a frankenwatch. What if they put new-style hands on an older-gen watch that is known for a specific style, including older hands and an era-specific dial? Here's a for instance: older generation Seamaster versus current Seamaster America's Cup LE (see pics below). Putting new hands on the older dial would make it anachronistic, although perhaps not a full-out frankenwatch. Granted, this is Omega, not Breitling, but I would think the concept could be the same with both brands. Edit: in doing a bit more research, I see that the design on the LE, while newer, did not replace the older design, but is a supplement to it, and is thus available concurrently with the older design. Therefore, the concern of not having the right hands for this specific model is moot; as a hypothetical, though, I think it still makes my point.

Author:	Roffensian [ Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Burnt out Lumes
We'll agree to see things differently. The idea of a frankenwatch is (to me) a watch that has been assembled by someone other than the manufacturer from parts of multiple watches in order to create something that it isn't. Breitling (and many other companies) have a long history of changing worn out / single use parts with the current design and I just don't see it as compromising the watch.

Author:	JacksonStone [ Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Burnt out Lumes
Roffensian wrote: We'll agree to see things differently. The idea of a frankenwatch is (to me) a watch that has been assembled by someone other than the manufacturer from parts of multiple watches in order to create something that it isn't. I'm not disagreeing with you so much as presenting one point of view and getting your input on it. Honestly, I haven't given it a whole lot of thought, although I guess my initial reaction is along the lines of what I said above. I used to watch Antiques Roadshow a lot, and it got drilled in my head every week that the less an item is like it was when it was first made, the less collectible it is. This is particularly true in the case of furniture, where refinishing strips an item of its value substantially. Obviously watches, like any number of other mechanical things, have to be maintained in order to function, so it would be virtually impossible to have one be functional years or decades later and still have all its original parts. But I guess if I had a preference, I would still prefer it to keep its original appearance as much as possible, especially if it's a collectible item, like a LE.

Author:	JustinFournier [ Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Burnt out Lumes
I doubt it costs them too much to keep old stock on things like hands for the case of repairs. I wouldn't expect it to be a huge issue, though I may be totally wrong.

Author:	JacksonStone [ Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Burnt out Lumes
JustinFournier wrote: ...though I may be totally wrong. Let's hope you're not.

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Author:	JacksonStone [ Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Burnt out Lumes
Checking out reluming services online, I see some providers offer vintage tritium, and even radium. Aside from its long half-life, does radium offer any particular advantage over Super Luminova in terms of visibility? If you were getting your dial relumed, would you go with SL, or something self-illuminating?