The Breitling Watch Source Forums :: View topic - Movement number = Serial number?

Hello!

I really need your help!

I recently bought a Breitling Blackbird Blacksteel Limited Ed from an Internet "grey market" dealer. The watch came with boxes and all papers including a certificate with stamps from a German authorised dealer.

In order to get an insurance on my watch I needed to get a valuation done from one of the auction houses here in Stockholm. When they did this they said that everything looks perfectly fine BUT that the movement had been replaced...

The reason they said this was that they claimed that the serial number of the watch (which is also on the warranty certificate and COSC-certifcate) should be identical to the number on the movement inside the watch.

When I contacted the seller he claimed that that simply is not correct, he says that the number on the movement is NOT the same as the serial number on Breitlings.

Can you guys tell me with certainty who is right?

Thank you!!

Legato wrote:

The COSC certificate is conclusive proof of who is right - the auction house.

COSC do not test watches, they test movements - uncased movements. The COSC certificate is issued to the movement and when the watch is assembled the watch gets the same serial number. If the COSC matches the case, but not the movement then the movement is not original.

Legato,

Just wanted to add on to what's been said. I have checked inside my watch and the movement number is indeed the number that is on the COSC and warranty certificate. Breitling cases only have the model number and not the movement number engraved, the COSC certificate only relates to the movement number which is the same as the serial number.

Which means that someone had replaced the movement in your watch. I would ask for an explanation and if possible, a full refund as this difference in movement numbers means the certificates are essentially worthless.

Hej Legato!

Är det Kaplans du lämnat klockan till?
Har själv haft en av mina klockor där för värdering. Nu hade jag köpt den på pantauktion av dem så de hade ett litet facit i handen, kan man säga. Med den var det inga konstigheter. Nu skall jag upp med en till klocka snart, tänkte jag, En Breitling Headwind jag köpt utan papper eller något.....blir ju spännande att se hur det går då....kanske har man blivit blåst och fått en kopia??!!! Tror dock inte det då säljaren verkar riktigt seriös.

Lycka till med din klocka!!

ja, just det...har inget svar på din fråga men blev glad att se en svensk på forumet....

Anders

I have provided an answer, I stand by my answer, and others have confirmed it.

Author:	Legato [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:30 am ]
Post subject:	Movement number = Serial number?
Hello! I really need your help! I recently bought a Breitling Blackbird Blacksteel Limited Ed from an Internet "grey market" dealer. The watch came with boxes and all papers including a certificate with stamps from a German authorised dealer. In order to get an insurance on my watch I needed to get a valuation done from one of the auction houses here in Stockholm. When they did this they said that everything looks perfectly fine BUT that the movement had been replaced... The reason they said this was that they claimed that the serial number of the watch (which is also on the warranty certificate and COSC-certifcate) should be identical to the number on the movement inside the watch. When I contacted the seller he claimed that that simply is not correct, he says that the number on the movement is NOT the same as the serial number on Breitlings. Can you guys tell me with certainty who is right? Thank you!!

Author:	Roffensian [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Movement number = Serial number?
Legato wrote: Hello! I really need your help! I recently bought a Breitling Blackbird Blacksteel Limited Ed from an Internet "grey market" dealer. The watch came with boxes and all papers including a certificate with stamps from a German authorised dealer. In order to get an insurance on my watch I needed to get a valuation done from one of the auction houses here in Stockholm. When they did this they said that everything looks perfectly fine BUT that the movement had been replaced... The reason they said this was that they claimed that the serial number of the watch (which is also on the warranty certificate and COSC-certifcate) should be identical to the number on the movement inside the watch. When I contacted the seller he claimed that that simply is not correct, he says that the number on the movement is NOT the same as the serial number on Breitlings. Can you guys tell me with certainty who is right? Thank you!! The COSC certificate is conclusive proof of who is right - the auction house. COSC do not test watches, they test movements - uncased movements. The COSC certificate is issued to the movement and when the watch is assembled the watch gets the same serial number. If the COSC matches the case, but not the movement then the movement is not original.

Author:	electrosound [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Movement number = Serial number?
Roffensian wrote: Legato wrote: Hello! I really need your help! I recently bought a Breitling Blackbird Blacksteel Limited Ed from an Internet "grey market" dealer. The watch came with boxes and all papers including a certificate with stamps from a German authorised dealer. In order to get an insurance on my watch I needed to get a valuation done from one of the auction houses here in Stockholm. When they did this they said that everything looks perfectly fine BUT that the movement had been replaced... The reason they said this was that they claimed that the serial number of the watch (which is also on the warranty certificate and COSC-certifcate) should be identical to the number on the movement inside the watch. When I contacted the seller he claimed that that simply is not correct, he says that the number on the movement is NOT the same as the serial number on Breitlings. Can you guys tell me with certainty who is right? Thank you!! The COSC certificate is conclusive proof of who is right - the auction house. COSC do not test watches, they test movements - uncased movements. The COSC certificate is issued to the movement and when the watch is assembled the watch gets the same serial number. If the COSC matches the case, but not the movement then the movement is not original. i knew COSC tests movements only but i never thought about that... where the serial number is written on the movement?

Author:	Legato [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Movement number = Serial number?
Quote: The COSC certificate is conclusive proof of who is right - the auction house. COSC do not test watches, they test movements - uncased movements. The COSC certificate is issued to the movement and when the watch is assembled the watch gets the same serial number. If the COSC matches the case, but not the movement then the movement is not original. Very interesting and thank you for the input! However, on the COSC-certificate it says "Montre no", which means "Watch no". If what you say is correct I would assume it would have said "Mouvement no" or "Montre/Mouvement no"? Is what you are writing just a theory, or have you verified this by looking inside a genuine Breitling? Thanks!

Author:	enezdez [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Movement number = Serial number?
Very Interesting & Thanks For The Education Roff! Best Regards, Enezdez

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Author:	Roffensian [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Movement number = Serial number?
1) Serial number is written on either a bridge or the baseplate depending on movement 2) COSC's process is publicly available - www.cosc.ch, no theories involved 3) The COSC certificate is produced by Breitling and they have montre on it because the watch bears the same serial number as the movement for which the certificate is issued.

Author:	andershelin [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Movement number = Serial number?
Hej Legato! Är det Kaplans du lämnat klockan till? Har själv haft en av mina klockor där för värdering. Nu hade jag köpt den på pantauktion av dem så de hade ett litet facit i handen, kan man säga. Med den var det inga konstigheter. Nu skall jag upp med en till klocka snart, tänkte jag, En Breitling Headwind jag köpt utan papper eller något.....blir ju spännande att se hur det går då....kanske har man blivit blåst och fått en kopia??!!! Tror dock inte det då säljaren verkar riktigt seriös. Lycka till med din klocka!! ja, just det...har inget svar på din fråga men blev glad att se en svensk på forumet.... Anders

Author:	audionutter [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Movement number = Serial number?
Legato, Just wanted to add on to what's been said. I have checked inside my watch and the movement number is indeed the number that is on the COSC and warranty certificate. Breitling cases only have the model number and not the movement number engraved, the COSC certificate only relates to the movement number which is the same as the serial number. Which means that someone had replaced the movement in your watch. I would ask for an explanation and if possible, a full refund as this difference in movement numbers means the certificates are essentially worthless.

Author:	RJRJRJ [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Movement number = Serial number?
audionutter wrote: Legato, Just wanted to add on to what's been said. I have checked inside my watch and the movement number is indeed the number that is on the COSC and warranty certificate. Breitling cases only have the model number and not the movement number engraved, the COSC certificate only relates to the movement number which is the same as the serial number. Which means that someone had replaced the movement in your watch. I would ask for an explanation and if possible, a full refund as this difference in movement numbers means the certificates are essentially worthless. Not sure I follow your explanation. Breitling casebacks have the serial number engraved, which should match the COSC cert and warranty booklet.

Author:	electrosound [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Movement number = Serial number?
andershelin wrote: Hej Legato! Är det Kaplans du lämnat klockan till? Har själv haft en av mina klockor där för värdering. Nu hade jag köpt den på pantauktion av dem så de hade ett litet facit i handen, kan man säga. Med den var det inga konstigheter. Nu skall jag upp med en till klocka snart, tänkte jag, En Breitling Headwind jag köpt utan papper eller något.....blir ju spännande att se hur det går då....kanske har man blivit blåst och fått en kopia??!!! Tror dock inte det då säljaren verkar riktigt seriös. Lycka till med din klocka!! ja, just det...har inget svar på din fråga men blev glad att se en svensk på forumet.... Anders ?

Author:	mfserge [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Movement number = Serial number?
Buy from an authorized dealer and save yourself the headache.

Author:	Legato [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Movement number = Serial number?
Roffensian and audionutter - Thank you both for your help! Frustrating with the hassle, but great to get a second opinion! I wish I knew why they decided to change the movement on a brand new watch, hmmmmm. Anders - Yes it was Kaplans. Good luck with your watch!

Author:	Legato [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Movement number = Serial number?
Roffensian; I just got reply from a different watch store (totally independant from the first one): "The word Montre means watch and chronometer certificates with Rolex bear the case no NOT the movement no. With Breitling i would assume the same but I will confirm with my watch maker and get back to you." Since (like you said) the COSC-certificate is produced by Breitling (and not COSC), just like the Rolex ones are produced by Rolex I see no reason that they can not bear the case number and not the movement number... It´s very surprising to me that this "simple" issue seems to have a lot of different answers. Does anyone else have a Breitling they would like to open?

Author:	Roffensian [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Movement number = Serial number?
I have provided an answer, I stand by my answer, and others have confirmed it.

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Author:	Legato [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Movement number = Serial number?
Roffensian wrote: I have provided an answer, I stand by my answer, and others have confirmed it. Not saying you are wrong, Im just saying that the argument that COSC only looks at the movement doesnt mean that that number is on the certificate since Rolex certs has case number not movement number.