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What's a LIMITED edition?
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Author:  CountDuckula [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  What's a LIMITED edition?
Are Limited Models really Limited?
I think Roff posted that they made 180k watches last year
If Breitling has 41 models...
Then 180000/41=4309 per year
If they made the same model for 3 years before being discontinued we have 13000 more or less.
He said that the production decreased +- 50%
Let's add 7000 watches for the past two good years and we have 20000.
If we compare that amount with a 1000 limited model there's 1 limited for 20 standard models
2000 limited 1 per 10
3000 limited 1 per 6.6
This is comparing a limited model for a standard 3 years production.
Am I crazy? Limited what?
Author:  RJRJRJ [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's a LIMITED edition?
You cant divide by 41 since many models have a much lower production number than others. Ladies models, Bentley models, cockpits, some navi variations etc, are limited because of high prices or lack of demand. The chronomats, super avengers, steelfish, colt, navi, etc, make up the bulk of production. Since a limited edition is not limited to a per year number, but an entire lifecycle, 1000 or 2000 is limited compared to the non LE version of the watch. This is the same reason that when you see an LE Bentley, its usually 100 pieces or less.
Author:  CountDuckula [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's a LIMITED edition?
That was a example, I know that there are lots of variables.
But we don't have numbers for each model, so that's how I calculated.
The whole idea is to say that a limited edition is no so limited and to know if someone agrees with me.
Author:  RJRJRJ [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's a LIMITED edition?
CountDuckula wrote:
That was a example, I know that there are lots of variables.
But we don't have numbers for each model, so that's how I calculated.
The whole idea is to say that a limited edition is no so limited and to know if someone agrees with me.


I understand, my point is that "limited edition" is a relative term. The model is limited, when compared to its regular production counterpart. A Super Avenger LE of 2000 is limited compared to the regular model, but compared to a standard Bentley GT non-LE, its not very limited.
Author:  CountDuckula [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's a LIMITED edition?
And what about superocean heritage 125th "limited" model? it says limited to 1000 examples.
1000 white dial, 1000 black dial, 1000 gun metal dial. When I discoverd that, I was very dissapointed.
That's 3000 watches!
Author:  mfserge [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's a LIMITED edition?
Breitling's Limited Editions are not so limited.. 1,000 watches are NOT very limited regardless of what the total production numbers are. The SOHC LE (which I own) has a 1,000 of each dial color, that's 3,000 SOHC LEs.... thats NOT limited at all!!!! I bought it because I love the watch, not because it was limited...and I certainly don't expect it to go up in value.

Breitling's Limited Edition marketing is a weak attempt to generate additional revenue. AD's tell their less knowledgeable customers that they won't discount the LE's as they do normal production watches....creating a false sense of exclusivity with these pieces. I'm very angry with their limited edition marketing!! If they made a truly unique model and reduced the production to under 500 then I would be delighted and I'd consider it a Limited Edition.....but making a minor change and labeling it a limited edition isn't enough to call in an LE (and charge a premium for it) in my book. Just MHO.

I think Breitling is in trouble unless they start making some design changes. The new LEs that are on tap for next year are horrible looking, let's cut the LE Bullcrap and get back to designing beautiful timepieces with multiple color/dial options...along with a number of other options which we all discussed before.
Author:  boogiebot [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's a LIMITED edition?
:yeahthat
Author:  john123 [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's a LIMITED edition?
3,000 doesn't make it a limited edition IMO. I also think that they are getting a little carried away with the # of limited edition series that they are releasing. When you combine that with the fact that they have all these blacksteel versions I think it just dilutes the models that are currently in the line.
Author:  Roffensian [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's a LIMITED edition?
At the risk of starting an English debate......

Limited editions are, by definition limited - they only produce x of them. The number could be 100,000, but it's still limited. This is different from a special edition where they are only produced for a certain period of time (one year for example), but the actual number is not restricted. Breitling also produces a number of ongoing 'special editions' where only x% of their production is of that model (or similar restriction).

The problem is that we tend to think of limited editions as something special and harder to obtain, and clearly that's what Breitling is attempting to do, and that is clearly not the case - to become a collectable LE then I think we have to look at something that is 100 or less - even some of the gold editions of 500 are not really going to make the realms of being highly sought after because the numbers are too high.

I think that Breitling has taken the approach of producing limited editions in high enough production runs to satisfy demand as opposed to making something super exclusive, hard to obtain and where the secondary market outstrips the new market (that happened briefly with AS and SA BlackSteels, but largely because of uneducated buyers).

To my mind, I'll only buy an LE if it offers somethign different - the upcoming DB in house Navitimer for example - I don't particularly care about the size of the production run (1,000 by all accounts), I just want an in house DB. If I get one then maybe I'll wish it was a production run of 50, but if it were and I couldn't get one without paying through the nose then I would probably be cursing that they weren't producing more.

Incidentally, Breitling has made super exclusive pieces, and they don't always sell - I can still hook someone up with a gold Navitimer QP rattrapante 50th anniversary piece. It's a limited edition of 10 and NOS - eight years after it was released.
Author:  mfserge [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's a LIMITED edition?
john123 wrote:
3,000 doesn't make it a limited edition IMO. I also think that they are getting a little carried away with the # of limited edition series that thet are releasing. When you combine that with the fact that they have all these blacksteel versions I think it just dilutes the models that are currently in the line.


At what point does Breitling run the risk of saturating their lineup with Limited Editions where the perception of owning something special has no impact on the customer's buying decision ?

If I walked I to an AD as a newbie customer and saw that most of the Breitlings are LEs I wouldn't buy into the hype that they're anything special since there are so many LE models.
Author:  Roffensian [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's a LIMITED edition?
mfserge wrote:
john123 wrote:
3,000 doesn't make it a limited edition IMO. I also think that they are getting a little carried away with the # of limited edition series that thet are releasing. When you combine that with the fact that they have all these blacksteel versions I think it just dilutes the models that are currently in the line.


At what point does Breitling run the risk of saturating their lineup with Limited Editions where the perception of owning something special has no impact on the customer's buying decision ?

If I walked I to an AD as a newbie customer and saw that most of the Breitlings are LEs I wouldn't buy into the hype that they're anything special since there are so many LE models.



That's a marketing thing though - try buying a Panerai that isn't a limited edition - and it seems to work for them.
Author:  mfserge [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's a LIMITED edition?
Roffensian wrote:
That's a marketing thing though- try buying a Panerai that isn't a limited edition - and it seems to work for them.


Great point BUT when I went into my AD to look at PAMs he didn't mention ONCE that the 312 is a limited production. We walked over to the Breitling display and I was looking at the new Navi Legende and he wouldn't stop talking about how limited it is and how few he will be getting. That struck me as a bit odd.

I think Panerai and Breitling have two totally different sales pitches.....it seems that the few ADs vie been to have all lead with the Limited Edition sales pitch on the new Legende and Code Yellow whereas the Panerais it wasn't even mentioned. Just my observations.
Author:  txturbo [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's a LIMITED edition?
Roffensian wrote:
Incidentally, Breitling has made super exclusive pieces, and they don't always sell - I can still hook someone up with a gold Navitimer QP rattrapante 50th anniversary piece. It's a limited edition of 10 and NOS - eight years after it was released.


I need that... :lingsrock:

What's the list?
Author:  Roffensian [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's a LIMITED edition?
txturbo wrote:
Roffensian wrote:
Incidentally, Breitling has made super exclusive pieces, and they don't always sell - I can still hook someone up with a gold Navitimer QP rattrapante 50th anniversary piece. It's a limited edition of 10 and NOS - eight years after it was released.


I need that... :lingsrock:

What's the list?


Oh now there's a long story.

I was accused of lying when I had this piece in the Buy / Sell / Trade section (I have a deposit on it with the understanding that the AD can sell to someone else and I will only buy if I can sell) because I stated the list price as C$99,900. That member claimed to have evidence that the list was significantly lower but failed to prove his claim. The problem with this piece is that the list price is correct (and I can prove it to a serious buyer), because of the state of the Canadian dollar at the time. Now, the Canadian dollar has recovered and the price is unrealistic because the equivalent US (or GBP, Euro, etc) price has increased by 50+ percent.

However, the AD paid for it in C$ at the time and isn't prepared to take a big hit on it just because of the exchange rate, which is why it's not selling.

C'est la vie.
Author:  H2F [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What's a LIMITED edition?
As far as the actual pieces though, I think you must also consider there are many, many, many more ADs and stores selling Breitlings on a global scale (in Singapore alone, there must be hundreds of stores). So to be fair, for a Breitling, 2,000 or 3,000 pcs may very well be "limited", as far as the customer (and hence, the saleman's pitch) is concerned, as it won't be available in all watch stores selling Breitlings.

After all, most watch buyers are not WIS, and buys on impulse, and won't buy such a valuable item through mail or internet.
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