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What next?
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Author:  andrew692003 [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  What next?
I've been looking through the 09 Chronolog today as I seem to have an itchy wrist once more! :shock:

Anyway I've narrowed it down to 3(I think)!

Navitimer World, Blue, Bracelet.
Navitimer World, White, Bracelet.
Montbrilliant Legende, Silver, Bracelet.

Any opinions?

The problem I have is I can't get to an AD to try any on so I can't really 'try before I buy'. I've spoken to George and prices are going up from 1st May which may be too soon to make a decision.

Anyway thats the latest dilemma for me. Not entirely convinced another Breitling is the way to go, I like some of the Panerai's but they maybe a bit on the pricey side for me.

Any pro's or con's would be appreciated but I know I'll have to take the plunge myself! :wink:

Cheers
Author:  Roffensian [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What next?
There are a few Legende vs. World threads on here.

The Legende has the integrated bracelet so you don't have strap options there unless you go custom, but it is a very nice watch, as you know I have the TT version. The World does have the second time zone if that's useful and is probably the more popular model - the Monty hands are a little love it / hate it.
Author:  geralder [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What next?
PRICES GOING UP?!?!?!?!? :wowzers :wowzers :wowzers
Author:  oBMTo [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What next?
You can't go wrong with any of those choices. I personally went with the Legende because I love steel and bracelet on the Legende is killer. Although the intergrated bracelet limits you to aftermarket custom straps, I feel the comfort on steel is greatly improved. I also prefer symmetrical dials versus non-symmetrical dials (the only improvement I would make to my Chronomat Evo). Many don't like the silver markers with the gold hands, but on day-to-day goings, it's not noticeable in most lighting.

Here's mine:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Author:  jnelson3097 [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What next?
geralder wrote:
PRICES GOING UP?!?!?!?!? :wowzers :wowzers :wowzers


Dealer cost is going up, prices remain the same but discounts may not be as generous.
Author:  boogiebot [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What next?
jnelson3097 wrote:
geralder wrote:
PRICES GOING UP?!?!?!?!? :wowzers :wowzers :wowzers


Dealer cost is going up, prices remain the same but discounts may not be as generous.


wow i am surprised that Ling is raising the cost for their dealers. considering these watches are a luxury item and its not like we are sitting in the dot com boom just seems weird that they are raising the cost.
Author:  sharkman [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What next?
Quote:
just seems weird that they are raising the cost.


Very wierd. Could the logic be most Breitling buyers are doing OK in a bad economy and will continue to afford price increases, whereas most folks are having a rougher time and aren't potential buyers anyway? Squeeze more profit per unit from the segment of the market they view with inelastic demand?

My demand sure isn't inelastic.
Author:  andrew692003 [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What next?
jnelson3097 wrote:
geralder wrote:
PRICES GOING UP?!?!?!?!? :wowzers :wowzers :wowzers


Dealer cost is going up, prices remain the same but discounts may not be as generous.


Sorry guyz that was what I should have said, but you get my meaning :cry: !

Thanks for the advice guyz, oBMTo - I love that watch every time I see it but I'm caught in 3 or 4 minds at the moment!

Cheers
Author:  Roffensian [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What next?
sharkman wrote:
Quote:
just seems weird that they are raising the cost.


Very wierd. Could the logic be most Breitling buyers are doing OK in a bad economy and will continue to afford price increases, whereas most folks are having a rougher time and aren't potential buyers anyway? Squeeze more profit per unit from the segment of the market they view with inelastic demand?

My demand sure isn't inelastic.


No the logic is that Breitling are sick and tired of their watches being discounted by 30+% on a regular basis in the US.
Author:  sharkman [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What next?
Does Breitling set limits on AD discounts?
Author:  Roffensian [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What next?
sharkman wrote:
Does Breitling set limits on AD discounts?


Yes, and ADs push them to (and beyond) the limits. They fired a bunch of ADs about 18 months ago for excessive discounting and it didn't change anything so now they restrict the ability through tighter margins.
Author:  dhalem [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What next?
You can get several great PAM's for about the same price as a Navi World, like a 000, 005, 111, 112, 183.

As for Breitling raising AD costs, I say good luck to them, but I doubt it will have the effect they want.
Author:  mktbubble74 [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What next?
Roff makes a good point, but I have a completely different view.

Breitling has enjoyed global market penetration through a combination of attractive styling AND aggressive discounting. My opinion is that they are targeting a young-ish (20s/30s) customer base to try and build lifetime affinity and therefore historically recognized that ADs may have needed to be a bit flexible on price to get the product into the marketplace. Maybe this doesn't hold true with the Bentley line and some of the precious metals models but for the majority of their offerings priced between USD 3-6K, the last 7-8 years you've been able to negotiate (unless you're dealing with an establishment whose name begins with 'T').

Now all of a sudden Breitling is not OK with the distribution strategy they've sanctioned as necessary to build brand recognition. OK, so let's follow that through:

-Fire ADs who they deem have 'abused' the discounting privilege;
-Hike AD cost for everyone else.

Now what does this accomplish? A few things. First, it's going to lose you customers as without the ability to negotiate discounts some people may simply not be able to afford a given timepiece, or worse, find that timepiece is now priced equivalent/close to equivalent with a competitor (maybe a Rolex Sub). I.

Second, the last couple of years have seen some pretty radical departures from Breitling's historical styling (see Chronomat B01 and Galactic lines, rubber bezel on Superocean); so while they're improving functionally (B01 movement) they will likely need to incentivize purchasers to buy into the Breitling design department's 'vision' of the future. With tight AD discounting restrictions, this probably won't happen.

Third, the global economy is still terrible and likely to remain that way for some time. Most of Breitling's new customer base did pretty well for themselves 2002-2007 but after that all bets, and bonuses, are off. So again, if ever there were a time to look askance at discounting this would seem to be it. At least in the U.S., most customers are NOT at a point where they can absorb retail price increases-we very much have a stagflation thing going on here.

Fourth, and I've made this point previously, Breitling probably incurred a lot of costs in designing the B01 movement and they will need to recoup these costs through sales. I think it's probably a better business strategy at this stage of the game to encourage ADs to push product rather than to try and build some faux facade of exclusivity as the company's financial health could very well depend on it.

So I think Breitling needs to continue to encourage discounting, even if on the down-low. Otherwise customers will either find something else to do with their disposable income or they'll purchase from a competitor. And I think the latter could become a problem for our friends in Switzerland in the near future.

Just my $.02, and from a US perspective at that. Still a big fan of the brand, hoping they get their heads on straight and start listening to customers rather than drink the Kool-Aid of engineering arrogance.
Author:  Roffensian [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What next?
We are in danger of completely destroying Andrew's request for assistance between a Legende and a World so let's put that back in people's minds as well....

In terms of your points mktbubble74, I think that at the time that you introduce a radical design clearly designed to bring new people to the brand you an adjust pricing - people without experience have less price expectation.

I think the global economy is improving more so than in the US - commodities are recovering well, GDP numbers are strengthening, interest rates are starting to move up, and maybe most relevantly consumer confidence is improving.

Finally, with a business that is focused completely on luxury items, and with cost reductions implemented themselves (fewer pieces produced in 2009) Breitling may well need better margins to survive - and if it loses some customers then that's OK (in fact desirable if they can't meet demand).
Author:  jnelson3097 [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What next?
dhalem wrote:
You can get several great PAM's for about the same price as a Navi World, like a 000, 005, 111, 112, 183.



I'd check out those, but if you stay with Breitling, my vote goes towards the Legende.
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