The Breitling Watch Source Forums :: View topic - Windrider Cockpit gaining five minutes each day

because the balance has too wide amplitude, if I say correctly (I'm not a watchmaker so I might stand corrected). I had the same problem with my Chrono Superocean when it was new and the authorized service could manage the problem. You can help them with diagnostics: wearing the watch it gains a lot but on a winding machine the watch is much more on time. My CSO is very sharp on time ever since. (This watch of mine is just 6 years old...)
Of course a demagnetizing treatment cannot do any harm...
Hope this helps.

Let as now what happens!

Best regards: Robertus

Robertus61 wrote:

If the watch is running fast then it implies that the amplitude is too narrow, not too wide - the balance isn't swinging as far and is therefore increasing the frequency. Magnetism causes the hairspring to 'stick' together, effectively shortening the hairspring, lowering the amlitude and increasing the frequency.

The fact that the change was so pronounced from when the watch was new makes that the obvious suggestion - a watchmaker will be able to check it very easily - though if there aren't obvious reasons for it then the source has to be found to avoid the problem recurring.

Hopefully the AD has a watchmaker so that the watch doesn't have to be sent away for diagnosis.

An effectively overwound mainspring can cause problems with accuracy - I'm not sure why the increased amplitude per se was causing the problem. The overwound mainspring could cause an increase in frequency by transmitting too much power through the pallet fork and I'm guessing that in you case the impulse pin was bouncing off of the back of the pallet fork - effectively adding more power to the balance spring.

If that's the case it's not that the increased amplitude was causing the gain in the watch, but rather the increased amplitude caused the hairspring to be subjected to an additional force further increasing frequency.

Hope that made sense!

Well I've had my watch back now for a week. It was sent off to BUK, it was obviously still under warranty. They had it for just under three weeks. I received it back with the advice that the timing mechanism had been re-set. The watch had been stopped and I was told on the BUK report to wind it 40 revolutions to start it going. This was done and, to date, after a week, it hasnt gained or lost a second !! Well pleased to have it back and in such good order.

Author:	Mikeyselb [ Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:35 am ]
Post subject:	Windrider Cockpit gaining five minutes each day
I've had my Windrider Cockpit now for four weeks. The first week it lost about 2 minutes over the seven days. However since then it gains around five inutes each day now. I've read on other posts that Breitli g watches can take about a month to "settle down". I wear it every day. Does it already need looking at or is this normal for this timepiece, sorry, chronometer?

Author:	Roffensian [ Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Cockpit gaining five minutes each day
That is a watch with problems! Losing 2 minutes over a week is a little excessive for a new watch, but not a cause for alarm. Five minutes a day is way too much - in a brand new watch the logical suggestion is that it has become slightly magnetised. That's an easy fix for an AD but you need to discover what might be causing it to make sure that it doesn't happen again. Do you keep your watch close to magnetic fields - on a TV, speaker, next to a cell phone, etc??? Take it to an AD and they can make sure that the problem is that it has become magnetised. If it's something else then it needs a trip to Breitling, an AD can't regulate for 5 minutes a day.

Author:	Mikeyselb [ Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Cockpit gaining five minutes each day
It isnt kept near any of the items you refer to and it is on my wrist most of the day. It is brand new so I think it is a trip bCk to the AD to see what they recommend. Thank you.

Author:	Robertus61 [ Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:31 am ]
Post subject:	Other problem could be the "over-slipping" of the mainspring
because the balance has too wide amplitude, if I say correctly (I'm not a watchmaker so I might stand corrected). I had the same problem with my Chrono Superocean when it was new and the authorized service could manage the problem. You can help them with diagnostics: wearing the watch it gains a lot but on a winding machine the watch is much more on time. My CSO is very sharp on time ever since. (This watch of mine is just 6 years old...) Of course a demagnetizing treatment cannot do any harm... Hope this helps. Let as now what happens! Best regards: Robertus

Author:	Roffensian [ Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Other problem could be the "over-slipping" of the mainspring
Robertus61 wrote: because the balance has too wide amplitude, if I say correctly (I'm not a watchmaker so I might stand corrected). I had the same problem with my Chrono Superocean when it was new and the authorized service could manage the problem. You can help them with diagnostics: wearing the watch it gains a lot but on a winding machine the watch is much more on time. My CSO is very sharp on time ever since. (This watch of mine is just 6 years old...) Of course a demagnetizing treatment cannot do any harm... Hope this helps. Let as now what happens! Best regards: Robertus If the watch is running fast then it implies that the amplitude is too narrow, not too wide - the balance isn't swinging as far and is therefore increasing the frequency. Magnetism causes the hairspring to 'stick' together, effectively shortening the hairspring, lowering the amlitude and increasing the frequency. The fact that the change was so pronounced from when the watch was new makes that the obvious suggestion - a watchmaker will be able to check it very easily - though if there aren't obvious reasons for it then the source has to be found to avoid the problem recurring. Hopefully the AD has a watchmaker so that the watch doesn't have to be sent away for diagnosis.

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Author:	Robertus61 [ Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Other problem could be the "over-slipping" of the mainspring
Roffensian wrote: Robertus61 wrote: because the balance has too wide amplitude, if I say correctly (I'm not a watchmaker so I might stand corrected). I had the same problem with my Chrono Superocean when it was new and the authorized service could manage the problem. You can help them with diagnostics: wearing the watch it gains a lot but on a winding machine the watch is much more on time. My CSO is very sharp on time ever since. (This watch of mine is just 6 years old...) Of course a demagnetizing treatment cannot do any harm... Hope this helps. Let as now what happens! Best regards: Robertus If the watch is running fast then it implies that the amplitude is too narrow, not too wide - the balance isn't swinging as far and is therefore increasing the frequency. Magnetism causes the hairspring to 'stick' together, effectively shortening the hairspring, lowering the amlitude and increasing the frequency. The fact that the change was so pronounced from when the watch was new makes that the obvious suggestion - a watchmaker will be able to check it very easily - though if there aren't obvious reasons for it then the source has to be found to avoid the problem recurring. Hopefully the AD has a watchmaker so that the watch doesn't have to be sent away for diagnosis. Yes, Roff, you are right. But with my watch it was another problem: I seem to remember to be told that the mainspring did not slip properly just before getting overwound, and so the amplitude went some times over 360 degrees (does it make any sense???) and that made the watch gaining a minute in 30 minutes, when wearing. The winding machine gave much more constant power to the mainspring and so it could not reach the slipping state. It was a very rare problem with the 7750 and it was not to easy to find out. The watchmaker told me that knowing the difference of gaining time on wrist and on winding machine was a help when finding the problem. But I might still be wrong on this and quite a time has elapsed since... Hav a nice time, best regards: Robertus

Author:	Roffensian [ Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Cockpit gaining five minutes each day
An effectively overwound mainspring can cause problems with accuracy - I'm not sure why the increased amplitude per se was causing the problem. The overwound mainspring could cause an increase in frequency by transmitting too much power through the pallet fork and I'm guessing that in you case the impulse pin was bouncing off of the back of the pallet fork - effectively adding more power to the balance spring. If that's the case it's not that the increased amplitude was causing the gain in the watch, but rather the increased amplitude caused the hairspring to be subjected to an additional force further increasing frequency. Hope that made sense!

Author:	Robertus61 [ Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Cockpit gaining five minutes each day
Roffensian wrote: An effectively overwound mainspring can cause problems with accuracy - I'm not sure why the increased amplitude per se was causing the problem. The overwound mainspring could cause an increase in frequency by transmitting too much power through the pallet fork and I'm guessing that in you case the impulse pin was bouncing off of the back of the pallet fork - effectively adding more power to the balance spring. If that's the case it's not that the increased amplitude was causing the gain in the watch, but rather the increased amplitude caused the hairspring to be subjected to an additional force further increasing frequency. Hope that made sense! I seem to catch the train My first reply was because I think something similar could happen to the original watch in question.

Author:	Mikeyselb [ Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Cockpit gaining five minutes each day
Thanks for all the comments. You guys certainly appear to know what you are talking about!! Its all quite new to me, this being my first (hopefully not last!) Breitling. I'll keep you informed of any progress. The watch was not working when I initially picked it in the AD. The assistant gave it a few windings to get it going and I can honestly say I have tried to further, manually wind it since. Will report back, hopefully with good news.

Author:	Mikeyselb [ Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Cockpit gaining five minutes each day
Well I've had my watch back now for a week. It was sent off to BUK, it was obviously still under warranty. They had it for just under three weeks. I received it back with the advice that the timing mechanism had been re-set. The watch had been stopped and I was told on the BUK report to wind it 40 revolutions to start it going. This was done and, to date, after a week, it hasnt gained or lost a second !! Well pleased to have it back and in such good order.

Author:	Robertus61 [ Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Cockpit gaining five minutes each day
Mikeyselb wrote: Well I've had my watch back now for a week. It was sent off to BUK, it was obviously still under warranty. They had it for just under three weeks. I received it back with the advice that the timing mechanism had been re-set. The watch had been stopped and I was told on the BUK report to wind it 40 revolutions to start it going. This was done and, to date, after a week, it hasnt gained or lost a second !! Well pleased to have it back and in such good order. Happy about the happy end! Enjoy! Regards: Robertus

Author:	Roffensian [ Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Windrider Cockpit gaining five minutes each day
Great news! Wear it in health.

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