The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Why doesn't that surprise me?

Hey Everyone!

Thank you for being so supportive. Literally have been fighting a lonely battle the past few weeks. My Mother had surgery this week so I've been pre-occupied in checking this board.

Update

I've been calling Breitling daily in hopes they can contact PayPal to demand their letter be removed from any such dispute as that's not the purpose of their in-store evaluation letters.

The letter does not prove what the buyer received at their shipping location so how can it be applied to this dispute resolution? Well PayPal typically sides with buyers and this letter is merely a scapegoat.

I appealed within PayPal and had 10 days to provide more information. They shut it down after 6 days so I had to re-open the appeal again. Filed a complaint with Internt Complaint Service Run by FBI. Probably futile but why not?

So far, Breitling has been less than helpful. The store manager where the letter came from basically said its not his problem. Breitling Corporate won't put a decision maker on the phone. I've emailed evidence and full email explanations to both parties though. You would think after spending $15K through their company that protecting a customer from fraud would be no issue. I'm not asking them to take my side, I'm just asking them to detach their company from the dispute and tell PayPal their letter is inadmissible. They should want no part of defrauding their customers indirectly. They did nothing wrong, but there should at least be a disclaimer on their letters that they can't be used in PayPal or eBay disputes for these very reasons. You give a crook something like this and look what happens now. The very same company I've spent $15k with could now unintentionally aid in fraud, all for $100. I'm going to take PayPal to court at very least so Breitling shouldn't want to be involved in that event either. Their letter is only "evidence" in this case.

Next try is Brooklyn police. Yes, Brooklyn. Red flag from the start. Counterfeit capital of the world. The problem with these ebay users is they have many accounts and have assembled good feedback through cheap items like shoes.

For future reference, have UPS take photos before you ship. Also record the packing with your phone. Have them write an affidavit that they packed the item with serial number x, y, z. I was unknowing at the time as PP said tracking and insurance would be enough to protect me since this was a confirmed address. As a buyer, make sure you record UPS dropping off package and you opening it in same video. These things help.

I'm hesitant to give out the buyer's name because I own a web business and he could trash my business since he's daring enough to pull this stunt. Just don't sell to Brooklyn residents. Ever.

If any of you have a friend at Breitling Corporate and can get me up the chain of command, I'd really appreciate it.

I'll keep you all posted.

PS - My mother has a condition where she just doesn't absorb food properly. She had small bowl removed and the surgeon botched the surgery by taking out too much of the bowel. She's 100 lbs and can't gain weight now or absorb food she eats. Thus, kidney stones create in massive amounts because of the malabsorption and malnutrition. She's now fed through a liquid bag in hopes of controlling the stone production. Her kidney function is not great as you can guess. She had surgery this week to remove the backed up stones still inside her. No other case in history like this. No Doctor knows what to do because there's no precedent. Our insurance hates us hence the watch sale and devastation that fraud had to take place at this time, like there's ever a good time to be defrauded.

Until next time...

I have every sympathy with this problem but why so much emphasis on THE LETTER thats all it is ,one persons opinion there is still more to this situation and as Breitling say its not their problem as a company.Hope theres a happy ending to this,I dont want to sound mean but I dont think an update on details of your mothers illness helps because as in the letter case its not anyone elses business except you and your family

You won't have any cash at all since the bank would have proceeded with the chargeback. That's what scares me the most because there is nothing you can do about it.




I would say yes to your first question and yes to the first part of your second question.

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

For the trick with the two accounts, You have to make sure, that the "paypal contact account" is one, where You cannot go below zero under any circumstances (like the old checking accounts in the US, where the check bounced if You pay 1 cent too much). Otherwise, the bank will for sure repay the amount.

BG
Thomas

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http://www.ellert.at

Thank you Thomas, that is what I am thinking too.

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

I emphasize the letter because that's the ONLY evidence being used to say I sold something counterfeit. Because he's able to "prove" this watch as counterfeit with a fraudulent letter, he doesn't have to return ANY item to me under PayPal's policy. Without this letter, the buyer would have to sent me something back, anything, which then allows me to prove that's not what I sent. Often times, these guys just return the fake watch they switched out aleady. However, now PayPal says the buyer can "destroy" the item and not return it since they don't want to deal with the return fraud issue and have the case keep going.

No letter = no counterfeit claim = no ability to avoid returning an item to me in some way shape or form

Like I said, I'm alone in this. If venting on a message board makes me feel better for .5 seconds, I'll take that as I battle for anyone to lift a finger on my behalf.

Breitling will not help detach their letter from PayPal. Sad. They don't care if they unintentionally aid in the defrauding of their customers.

Who knew that a $50 Breitling Replica + $100 Evaluation Letter from Breitling = A Free Authentic Breitling for Bentley Motors T Retailed at $9K.

If you have taken the cash out of the account before PayPal tries to exercise the chargeback, and you have put it in a different account with a different bank, you would still have the cash. The bank can't get what isn't there. They might pay the chargeback themselves and show a negative balance on your account, but that's not the same as taking the cash from you. In the meantime, during the investigation process, you've still got the cash.

Have you considered suing PayPal for negligent claims investigation and possible intentional siding with meritless buyer claims due to a conflict of interest? If enough people are getting screwed by PayPal's claims policies, there could be some ammunition for a fight (read: class action). It's a longshot, but it might be something to consider. You could be the Rosa Parks of eBay watch sellers.

Not for long since the bank will pay the chargeback and then reclaim it.




Hence, the bottom line is you will be missing that amount.

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

I don't see the harm in disclosing the name of the Breitling AD who wrote the letter. Who was it?

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SHARKMAN

Breitling Boutique in New York. Didn't get the watchmaker's name, but he did take the time to explain the watch he wrote up versus my watch which was obviously completely different. The replica wasn't even a good replica with a fake serial number.

The store manager wouldn't lift a finger. I told them this policy needs to change regardless so future scams can't take place like this. As long as they sell their inventory, they don't care what happens after-sale.

It could take longer than you think, since ultimately the only way the bank could get the money back from you is to sue you, which could take years. It's probably not worth it, though, since by that time, you're credit would be shot, there's be attorney fees, overdraft charges, etc. I think Thomas is right: if you're serious about using a two-account system, it would be worth your while to seek out an account that will not go below zero, so the bank won't pay the chargeback on a zero balance. That way, PayPal would be in the position of trying to reclaim the funds from you, not the bank. In that case, they'd have to prove the validity of their claim.

In fairness to Breitling, all they did was examine a fake watch and write a letter saying it was fake. I assume the letter didn't say, "the watch sold and shipped by rippedoffbypaypal was a fake." They have no info in that regard so why would they retract a letter merely stating the watch examined was fake? There is a social utility to dealers examining and issuing letters like this one - many folks want an examination and something in writing before they buy a pre-owned watch, or sell one.

I know you are frustrated and out a boat load of money but Breitling isn't the problem here. They did nothing wrong.

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SHARKMAN