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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:22 am 
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P51 wrote:
cruvon wrote:
WatchFred wrote:
claim is correct, though actually Seiko might have been the first in mass production.


Thanks Fred, that's surprising!


By a whisker (a few weeks). Check Seiko cal 6138. Integrated or not, 3 features stand out on this most venerable of Japanese movements. Crown on the right hand side for case, full external rotor and day date windows. Day date does a double shift so it either reads; Other language/Kenji and quite an interesting feature for its time.

It’s an ordinary movement, nothing to see really (except planted bridge), and just as we have come to expect and see from movement development ever since. Watchmakers find them easy to work on. No booby traps or difficult to service parts, absolutely bullet proof and highly reliable.

Actually the first automatic chronograph available to the public was indeed a Seiko but it was a 6139. The earliest serial numbers found point to the month of February 1969.

This is one of those examples (picture taken from the net):

Image

The serial reads:

    9 - last year of the decade (1969 in this case as the caseback says "WATERPROOF" and not "WATER RESISTANT");
    2 - the month (February);
    1301 - the production number in Feb-1969.

There are also serials beginning with 920 so even older that the one pictured.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:36 am 
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fmc000 wrote:
P51 wrote:
cruvon wrote:
Thanks Fred, that's surprising!


By a whisker (a few weeks). Check Seiko cal 6138. Integrated or not, 3 features stand out on this most venerable of Japanese movements. Crown on the right hand side for case, full external rotor and day date windows. Day date does a double shift so it either reads; Other language/Kenji and quite an interesting feature for its time.

It’s an ordinary movement, nothing to see really (except planted bridge), and just as we have come to expect and see from movement development ever since. Watchmakers find them easy to work on. No booby traps or difficult to service parts, absolutely bullet proof and highly reliable.

Actually the first automatic chronograph available to the public was indeed a Seiko but it was a 6139. The earliest serial numbers found point to the month of February 1969.

This is one of those examples (picture taken from the net):

Image

The serial reads:

    9 - last year of the decade (1969 in this case as the caseback says "WATERPROOF" and not "WATER RESISTANT");
    2 - the month (February);
    1301 - the production number in Feb-1969.

There are also serials beginning with 920 so even older that the one pictured.



Very nice, were they modular or integrated?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:42 am 
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we are taking this quite a bit off topic again, San.
Google is your friend, but here's a very good summary of that race, though w/ a bit Cal.11 bias, youl'll find others with a similar bias towards the El Primero.

http://www.onthedash.com/docs/Project99.html


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:54 am 
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WatchFred wrote:
we are taking this quite a bit off topic again, San.
Google is your friend, but here's a very good summary of that race, though w/ a bit Cal.11 bias, youl'll find others with a similar bias towards the El Primero.

http://www.onthedash.com/docs/Project99.html



sorry Fred, couldn't stop myself because am learning new things here:). Thanks for the link. Reading the link, it reminds me of the space race to the moon when Russia and the US both announced they had the technology to get there but the true winner was the one who actually made it to the moon. The Zenith wasn't independently tested in the announcement phase to take Zeniths announcement seriously, so I would lean on the Breitling consortium as the true winner since first to the market is similar to the first to the moon analogy. The debate on whether a movement is modular or integrated is irrrelevant to either being the first auto chrono.

Except offcourse if Seiko trumped them but looks like there are some doubts about Seikos exact announcement and market release dates to the Western world though the caseback above says otherwise.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:24 am 
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Well, I think I might have learned something here too. I did not think the 6139 was before the 6138. But seems right. Both are integrated.

Well, back on topic, I think the Heuer Calculator Ref 110.633 in cal 11 form, or Ref 150.633 in cal 15 form is one that cannot be overlooked.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:39 am 
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Seems like a good list to me. Not that I'm an expert but nothing to really whine about there. Obviously it's not all of the good chrono's but some definite classics.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:17 pm 
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As others have said, while there are plenty of other potential contenders for this list, it's pretty tough to argue with it too much..... once you put personal likes and dislikes aside of course! For me (as I've said before) I find the Daytona hideously over-rated (and thus over-priced), but there is no arguing it's iconic status. My only other wish on that list is that they'd call that particular Carrera, the Heuer Carrera (which it is) as opposed to the TAG Heuer Carrera (which it isn't!). :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:23 am 
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cruvon wrote:
WatchFred wrote:
we are taking this quite a bit off topic again, San.
Google is your friend, but here's a very good summary of that race, though w/ a bit Cal.11 bias, youl'll find others with a similar bias towards the El Primero.

http://www.onthedash.com/docs/Project99.html



sorry Fred, couldn't stop myself because am learning new things here:). Thanks for the link. Reading the link, it reminds me of the space race to the moon when Russia and the US both announced they had the technology to get there but the true winner was the one who actually made it to the moon. The Zenith wasn't independently tested in the announcement phase to take Zeniths announcement seriously, so I would lean on the Breitling consortium as the true winner since first to the market is similar to the first to the moon analogy. The debate on whether a movement is modular or integrated is irrrelevant to either being the first auto chrono.

Except offcourse if Seiko trumped them but looks like there are some doubts about Seikos exact announcement and market release dates to the Western world though the caseback above says otherwise.

Exactly. The article seems to be poorely written WRT Seiko. Clearly the March 69 is not really a prototype and not even one of the first examples.

/OT

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:59 am 
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Interesting list.

Made me look again at my other Speedy, thinking now that I will keep it, not because of the list just that I am appreciating it.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:53 am 
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Alan M wrote:
Interesting list.

Made me look again at my other Speedy, thinking now that I will keep it, not because of the list just that I am appreciating it.


Well done Alan. I agree with you. They get crowded out sometimes by the next new thing. Still iconic and a definite on the list. If you have any doubts about a speedy, just watch George Clooney in the American. A good pic made better by his choice of watch.

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